Author Topic: This way for study.  (Read 882 times)


  • ecclesia
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This way for study.
« on: December 29, 2013, 06:08:14 PM »
To all Muslims

After careful consideration and serious thought about what makes Islam be Islam.  To understand it, you must learn its origins based on history, the source of which Muslims use, such as the Quran and other books.  When you study another faith system, you cannot go in to that faith and find out what makes it wrong.  By doing so, you distort what the real message is because all you are interested in is what is wrong about it.  Even if it is right, you can't see that right because you are looking for that wrong which leads you away from the truth.

I went in this study to find out what Islam is and what differences, if any, was there.  I wanted to know what kind of God they serve and so on.  The list is long.  Needless to say, I looked at every aspect possible to get to know the real Islam.  I didn't base my study to prove it wrong, I based my study to understand completely what it means to be a Muslim and what their daily lives were and so on.  It didn't matter whether I agreed with it or not.  The point of the study was NOT to disprove Islam, but rather understand its aspects of Islam.

I know for a fact that Muslims don't know what Christians teach because Muslims (as the common trend) always goes to the Bible to tell us why it's wrong.  It is a common teaching for a Muslim to challenge Christians to prove this and that of the Christian Bible thinking that it cannot be answered but in reality, it can be answered and answered correctly and without contradiction yet the Muslim cannot see that truth.  As my studies went forth, I needed to find a way to have you, as a Muslim, to get an understanding as to what the Bible is saying yet I was unable to do so because you were so deeply ingrained into Islam.  Anything that contradicts Islam must be false.  That is the fundamental training in Islam.  Don't ask questions nor don't try to understand what we (Muslims) don't want you to hear.  Question.  What do you think would happen if we ran an experiment and told all muslims to read just the Gospels.  Many would leave Islam.  Muslims don't want you to read that book because of that possibility of you leaving.

Why do Muslims not understand Christianity?  It's no offense but they are just not thinking about what they are reading in the Bible Scriptures.  Why is that?  As I have stated earlier.  Muslims are just looking for references that suit what they need to disprove the Bible and say.."See here?  Your Bible says such and such and that makes your Bible false.  Read the Quran now because it's pure and without error!"  Well, the error you make consistently is you constantly take the Bible out of context.  Perhaps you just don't understand the meaning of the reference you quoted.  Also, Muslims take their very own Quran out of context too and the Muslims just don't see that either.  Muslims take the Quran at face value without examining it carefully.

That leads me to another question I had.  Why is it that you can't even understand some very simple verses within our Bible?  First off, You can't argue that our Bible has different versions.  It doesn't.  What it actually has is different translations which is COMPLETELY different than versions.  If it were a different version, it would have different meanings, stories, ect, ect, ect.  To be a different translation is referring to languages.  This person is Chinese and he wants to read the book.  Or he's Vietnam and wants to read it.  Both the Bible and Quran are translated so that everybody can read it.  The real question is, why do Muslims not understand the Bible?  Well, after extensive research of Islam and its writings, I came to only one reason that seems to rear its head continuously.  The most commonly used question is, "Show me where Jesus said I am God and I'll believe."  While it is true that that use of wording does not exist in our Bible for no one will ever find that EXACT phrase written in the Bible anywhere.  It's no different than to say, "Show me where the word rapture is written in the Bible and I'll believe in the rapture."  That word will not be found either in the Bible.  Does that mean a rapture will not happen because that word doesn't exist in the Bible?  Certainly not!  That same principle also applies to your common question.  Show me where Jesus said I am God.  Simply because Jesus never said that phrase DOES NOT mean that Jesus isn't God.  He only said it in different ways.

Why is it that Muslims can't see that?  I have a reason why that is so.  The religion of Islam makes it VERY CLEAR not to believe in the trinity for there is only one God.  Muslims are so finely tuned NOT to believe in the trinity.  Muslims think we Christians believe in three gods.  Is that an accurate statement about what Christianity teaches?  Far from it.  Christians have NEVER believed nor ever will teach that Christians believe in three gods!  Never happened in the past and it never will happen now.  So, if Christians do not believe in three gods, then how is it that Christians call Jesus God?  Isn't that two gods now?  It would be if you continue to think humanistically.  The rationality just doesn't make sense yet Jesus is indeed God.  1+1=2 in real math.  In this case, 1+1=1.  View it this way.  You have a candle.  The flame of that candle represents God.  I can take that candle's flame and light another candle with it and call it my candle's flame.  What I have in my possession now is a part of God's flame.  It's the exact same flame that came from God and His flame never dimmed or went out.  It's just as bright as it was when I lit my candle from it.  God has one flame on his candle and Jesus has a flame that came from God on his candle.  Two separate candles with the flame that came from the same source.  All this means is that Christians believe in one God just as Islam does.  The only difference is that Jesus can do the same things God can do.  Two separate entities sharing the same God powers.  This DOES NOT mean there is competition in heaven and God is better than everybody else so there can be no equal.  They are working in unison with each other.  In the real heaven, God and Jesus ARE equal.  Jesus honors the FATHER (GOD) and the Father honors the Son, Jesus. 

Jesus is the exact image (not a physical image as you would get in a mirror) of the Father.  Do you see that?  If you don't understand the trinity, even though that word is never used in Scripture, then passages such as this one will not make sense.

John 14:7  If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Here, Jesus is the likeness of God, the Father.  Whatever God does, Jesus does and whatever Jesus does, God does as well.  They are one.  One God with one mission.  God and Jesus share the same power just like the candle flame.  God can do all things, so can Jesus.  They are one.  Two separate entities sharing one common goal.  God is God and will always be such. 

We are not saying that Jesus IS the actual God the Father.  No.  That is not the case.  To make this point absolutely clear, God the Father DID NOT vacate His throne, come to us in a form of man and called Himself Jesus.  THAT DID NOT HAPPEN!!!!!  Never EVER did that occur! 

Mark 16:19  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Kind of hard to sit on the right hand side of yourself, isn't it?

God also DID NOT have sex with ANYBODY!!!  That is NOT what our Scriptures teach!  Since the Bible is VERY CLEAR and right to the point, it would have said so.  What you are trying to prove without any evidence except for this one passage and this passage alone.

John 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If this was the only verse that possibly is proclaiming that God indeed had sex with Mary based on what the Muslims definition of the word "Begotten" then we should have no problem finding other references that prove the definition that begotten means in this context that God did indeed have sex.  If that is so, the Bible will clarify that to us.  If God DID NOT have sex with Mary, then the Bible will show that route as well.

But first.  Context, context, context.  The terminology of the word begotten means the phrase "only begotten" translated to the Greek word monogenes. This word is variously translated into English as "only," "one and only," and "only begotten.  Monogenes simply means unique or the only one or none like it.  Even the Quran specifies that there is none like Jesus. 

Now, did God indeed have sex with Mary?  Let's find out by looking at other Scripture references pertaining to Mary's side of the story and see if the Bible says God indeed have sex with Mary.

Luke 1:26-35
26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Verse 34 shows no sign of God having sex with Mary.  The real problem is that in order for Muslims to make a passage in the Bible the way they want it to be, they need to redefine the true nature or meaning of it.  God having sex with Mary is nowhere to be found anywhere in the Bible.  Even Isaiah foretold the coming of Jesus in this verse.  Even Isaiah is one of your trusted prophets.  Are you going to tell me he lied? 

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Child is born of whom will be the MIGHTY GOD?  Absolutely!  Jesus owns EVERYBODY.  He owns you and he owns me.  Jesus also owns Muhammad.  Jesus has the last word.  You cannot win against Jesus.  Try, if you must but be warned.  You will lose.   

Rev 1:17  And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Muhammad never carried this kind of power and authority.  Jesus is in charge of who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.  Can you show me any references that Muhammad had this authority?  So, what good was Muhammad?  Was Muhammad just his spokesperson who had no authority at all?  In your books, only Allah can.  Even then it's not too clear as to whether or not you're good enough to enter Paradise.  That's what it turned out to be.  Why?  Muhammad was smart.  He knew better than to match himself up with God.  By doing so, that would mean getting himself killed.  Jesus matched Himself up with God.  He claimed to be the Son of God and that, my Muslim friends, is BLASPHEMY!  All the way.  The Pharisees KNEW that terminology meant that Jesus claimed to be God.  That is why the Pharisees wanted to put Him to death.  Jesus just told the truth of who He really was.  It did ended up putting Him to death as planned.

Everywhere you go in the Scriptures, some way Jesus is proclaiming His deity with His Father (God).

Son of God
Son of man  Put God and man together and you get God that was man.
Light of the world
Lamb of God
Alpha and Omega
The first and the last
Beloved Son
Chief Shepherd
Bread of life
First begotten
Everlasting Father
Good Shepherd
Head of the church
Holy One (of God and of Israel)
I am
King of kings
The Life
Lord of all
Lord of lords
Mighty God
Morning Star
True vine
Word (or Word of God)

These things make Jesus God!  Why just one statement that says…"I am God" that will be suffice with Muslims?  Because Muslims know that the Bible doesn't say those words.  That's why.  How many name do you need to convince you Muslims that He is God?  How come if we Christians approach your Quran with that kind of attitude?  Jesus is the second part of the trinity.  Whether you like it or not, it is what it is and it cannot be changed by you or me!  Jesus always has the power of God to do as He wills.  The only difference between your god Allah and the Christians God Yahweh, is that the Christian's God wants you to come to Him freely by your choice, whereas Islam's god says you will come to me, or else. 

The Quran doesn't want you to understand that very basic principle.  Instead, they want to tell you Jesus is not God so that you will worship what they want you to worship.  Muhammad either didn't understand what he had heard or was told, or he didn't agree with it.  I choose the latter.  What it really comes down to is that Muhammad wanted to be worshiped.  Your books tells me that.  Who could only hear god?  Only Muhammad.  In our Bible, how many people heard God?


Just to name a few.  There are many more.  Who heard Allah speak?  Only Muhammad.  There was only one person that was apparently allowed to hear Allah.  Whenever there was a debate as to what Allah wanted, to get the answer, they had to go speak to Muhammad directly.  Muhammad had all the answers that supposedly came from Allah.  What if you needed to know something that is going on in your life that is not covered or that it is not clear as to what to do about it.  Who are you going to ask?  Not Muhammad.  Muhammad is dead.  He's been dead for almost 1500 years.  So, who do you have left to ask?  Allah?  Why can't you ask him the answer to the problem?  Allah doesn't exist.  If Allah does exist, Allah really doesn't care about you.  The ONLY thing Allah cares about is for you not to believe Jesus is your salvation and the Son of God.  Even Satan himself knows that Jesus is the Son of God.  Point is, Satan would rather you NOT know that part.  You can do anything you want to do and Allah is fine with that.  If you want to live peacefully with all people, fine.  If you want to kill all the Christian and Jews, even better!  Eliminate the source of truth so that way you won't convert to Christianity.  No message, no conversion.  Why do you think Muhammad made his religion that way?  It's the only way to keep people under his control.  Jesus wants you to come to Him freely by your choice.  Muhammad wanted you to become Muslim, or else.  If you leave Islam, it's automatic death by Allah's commands.  No Bibles are allowed to be read by ANY Muslims.  Why?  You may figure out the truth and that you are following a lie!

Suppose the Islamic Muslims has evidence that the Holy Bible has abrogated verses it it.  First order of business is to get the definition of the word "abrogate".

abrogate [ˈæbrəʊˌgeɪt]
(Law) (tr) to cancel or revoke formally or officially; repeal; annul

What that means if the Holy Bible says that some messages or whatever have been annulled or cancelled, I would definitely question the authority and the authentic reality of the Holy Bible.  I wouldn't know which verse, story or whatever is accurate and which verse is null and void.  I, from this point forward CANNOT trust the Holy Bible anymore.  To have the Holy Bible say that certain passages are now void BUT NOT REMOVED from the Holy Bible thus leaving the reader in a total state of confusion as to which part of the Holy Bible is accurate and which is not!  This will make the Holy Bible an unreliable source of information to follow. 

Guess what.  There is no such verse or any other references like that.  The word abrogate does not exist in the Holy Bible but it does exist in the Quran.

Quran Sura 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?

Quran Sura 16:101 When We substitute one revelation for another, and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

Alright.  Which verses in the Quran have been abrogated?  Worse yet, they didn't even remove the abrogated verses.  They were left in the Quran and even mixed in with the trustworthy ones.  If I were to read the Quran, I would't know what to believe.  We have one Imam tell me Islam is peaceful based on a selected set of passages in the Quran.  Then we have another teacher say that Islam is on the other end of the spectrum to kill the Jews and the Christians which is also found in selected passages of the Quran.  Both extremes are written in the Quran.  Which is correct?  Two diametrically opposed way of life is written in the Quran.  This makes the Quran, just like the Holy Bible, untrustworthy to use due to the questionable passage of abrogation.  Come on, Muslim friends.  This is how the Muslims study different religions. 

1.  If the Holy Bible does not say Jesus is God or Jesus says "I am God", then Jesus is not God.

2.  If the word trinity is not present in the Holy Bible, then trinity does not exist.

3.  Because of 1 and 2, the Bible is corrupt which means the Quran is pure and not corrupted.

4.  Since the Bible contains no word called abrogation and the Quran does, how dare you Christians take our Quran out of context!  However, it's OK for us Muslims to take any part of the Holy Bible out of context whenever we want to.

As I stated, just because certain words and phrases you want doesn't exist the way you want them to, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

Bottom line is that Muhammad made up all this stuff for his own gain.  Islam would have died if only Muhammad told the truth.  Muslims need to read and learn the real message of Islam.  Until you do just that, all Muslims that continue to believe in this nasty lie will only be able to understand that Jesus is God only when they die and meet Jesus, face to face as those Muslims march to hell while Allah, also known as Satan laughs at you because he got you to believe in that lie!  That makes Allah the happiest god of all time.  Why do you think he hates Christians and Jews so much?  Because Allah, Satan, hates God and Satan wants nothing more than to lead you away from the real God and Islam is the answer to that.  History is history.  Islam started with Muhammad and not before.  Jesus was NEVER a Muslim, EVER!  Neither were the disciples either.  Stop changing the facts of history just so that you can make Islam look better than it really is.  Study and find the real truth instead of believing the lies you were told.  Question your Quran and other Islamic sources as I have and the truth shall unveil itself to you.  As long as you stay embraced to Islam, the truth will never come to you, that is, until you die!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 08:34:24 PM by Bistabuster »