Author Topic: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"  (Read 5262 times)

Peter

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"Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« on: October 27, 2010, 09:26:23 PM »
"Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"

This is one of those amusing questions, that Ahmed Deedat and his disciple Naik, inspired their automaton disciples to repeat. As if Jesus was under some obligation to quote them, rather than reveal Himself in just the manner He chose to, through the Gospel! Let alone that it would be uncharacteristic for our humble Savior to say, nor would He even need to say such a thing, since for nearly 2,000 years His sheep have known who we are, and who He IS.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1175.0

But even the ignorance expressed, in the Greek sophist styled argument itself, makes it amazing that anybody would would repeat it. When God says He's God, would even the most mentally challenged require the last part of Deedat's/Naik's quote - "Worship Me" - to be stated, rather than be presumed 1600 years after God had announced Himself to mankind? http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=884.msg8129#msg8129

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=571.0

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=570.0

And with Jesus even having declared "I AM" (God), and in light of how His revelation to mankind concluded, how could any sane person, continue to bow toward and circumambulate the Quraish's black stone idol instead of at least trying to get to know Jesus, and then following Him?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1906.0

There is a whole forum section devoted to the subject of Jesus' divinity.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?board=40.0

MTLbobiras

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 12:57:15 PM »
I have seen this argument put out by muslims many times. I tell them directly Christ made no such claim " Worship me". The Only one that has made that exact claim is Satan in Luke 4:1-13

 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Deedat and Naik and company are not stupid or blind they see the same answer as we do, but how they manipulate that answer is another story. Do you agree on this?


Mike S

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2011, 01:13:08 PM »
I have seen this argument put out by muslims many times. I tell them directly Christ made no such claim " Worship me". The Only one that has made that exact claim is Satan in Luke 4:1-13

 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Deedat and Naik and company are not stupid or blind they see the same answer as we do, but how they manipulate that answer is another story. Do you agree on this?



Great point, MLT.

Something missing in their "logic" is this: Jesus knew that if he did say it directly as the Muslims require, he would have been stoned, or at least considered by all to be a lunatic. Today, that would mean being put into a mental hospital. The reaction by the people would be exactly the same if you or I tried it.

Peter

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2011, 02:59:51 PM »
I have seen this argument put out by muslims many times. I tell them directly Christ made no such claim " Worship me".

Comes straight from Deedat's foolishness. Jesus never would have had to say "worship me" any more than any of YHWH's prophets would have had to go around announcing "I'm a prophet" the way the false prophet Mohammed felt compelled to announce he was "a messenger" - specifically because he was trying to convince people that knew full well he wasn't. Whether by his being disqualified through Old Testament requirements of prophethood or the fact that he was a "prophet" with no fulfilled prophecy, that never performed a single miracle, that not a single person ever heard his alter-ego "Allah" or Gabriel give a single "revelation" to.

But then according to Ahmed Deedat all a person would have to do is pay a little lip service - lie or not - and that would make them a true prophet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E

The Only one that has made that exact claim is Satan in Luke 4:1-13

 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Deedat and Naik and company are not stupid or blind they see the same answer as we do, but how they manipulate that answer is another story. Do you agree on this?

For me the bigger reason is WHY they lie for Mohammed when their own books reveal his behavior the way that they do.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?board=53.0

MTLbobiras

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 11:31:33 AM »
"Comes straight from Deedat's foolishness. Jesus never would have had to say "worship me" any more than any of YHWH's prophets would have had to go around announcing "I'm a prophet" the way the false prophet Mohammed felt compelled to announce he was "a messenger" - specifically because he was trying to convince people that knew full well he wasn't."

While were on this point I happen to watch last night some of the arguments made by deedat against asish shoroosh, We came up and said the same argument I want to hear it from "his lips" Meaning the lips of Christ. Which goes back to my first comment when Christ was being tempted, there was another Character that was boasting and trying to make preposturous claims to Christ so Jesus would "Give In" but did not.
Deedat continued in his debate saying the closest he heard was comment like that was in revelations when Christ told St.John that I am the Alpha and Omega. Deedat then syas well john did NOT actually hear theis but heard it in a dream, and he goes on to boast that well when we eat too much and we sleep we all have these dreams! It makes one wonder if it was deedat doing the talking or was he being used as proxy to deliver a subliminal message of Lucifer.

IF you noticed when shoroosh would make his claims that were beneficial to him he would quote parts of the NT easily, He it cam time to contradict them and back stab them he would use the quran as refernce point quoting biblical scriptures. The hypocrisy is that they (muslims) boast our bibles are corrupt but when it's time to use them as tools then they use them.
Why is that? If the are corrupt why use them as refrence since they claim it is corrupt. I remember in schollo they would refrence that to being called "Two-Face"



Peter

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 11:54:53 AM »
Why is that? If the are corrupt why use them as refrence since they claim it is corrupt. I remember in schollo they would refrence that to being called "Two-Face"

They might offer the answer that they believe anything that isn't contradicted by Mohammed. But of course it would be absurd to use a a record so failed for ANYTHING much less to pick and choose what one wants. I think they don't see this because the Quran itself is so self-contradictory that they are stuck picking and choosing from within their own book. Yet the even more ridiculous part is that they are stuck having to believe that the Gospel became soooo corrupt, that the entire subject of the Gospel, had somehow become the exact opposite that it had somehow once been. This even though in the 7TH CENTURY after the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, had been copied tens of thousands of times, and had been being read all over the known world for centuries their own prophet declared

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

I ask if they just thought Mohammed was ignorant to all the corruption that modern Muslims claim in the Gospel but they simply become mute because they are left naked and exposed and without an answer.

Peter

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2011, 05:39:47 PM »
Mohammed not only had to keep announcing he was a "messenger" to try to convince folks that he was, he in fact had to keep telling them he was not demon possessed, as they rightly estimated him to be.

Qur'an 81:15 "I swear by the stars that run their course and hide themselves. They are my witness. And I swear by the night when it departs. Most surely this (Qur'an) is the word of an honored Messenger, a mighty powerful person of great rank and authority. One to be obeyed. My people, your companion (Muhammad) is not a demon possessed madman. Surely he has seen Him [Allah, Satan, Lucifer, Gabriel?]. This is not the utterance of an accursed devil - these are not the words of Satan."
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=2308.msg9614#msg9614

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

PeteWaldo

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 11:19:18 AM »
Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Bistabuster

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 05:40:35 PM »
Yes Jesus did say worship me. You Muslim people just refuse to read it.

Bistabuster

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Re: "Jesus Never Said: 'I Am God, Worship Me'"
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 03:13:36 AM »
Also, may I point out.  Muhammad said not to worship Muhammad yet in order to please Allah, YOU MUST PROCLAIM MUHAMMAD AS THE MESSENGER OF GOD or you will not be a Muslim.  So therefore, Muslims are worshiping Muhammad and only Muhammad!

So...So there!  :)