Author Topic: If Jesus is the Son He can't be the Father & never said He was  (Read 2026 times)

Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad
If Jesus is the Son He can't be the Father & never said He was
« on: December 05, 2010, 09:05:26 AM »
Regarding the claims that Jesus never declared He is YHWH - "I AM" - the Father, He did so on several occasions as covered in that category.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?board=40.0

And specifically as the Father in the following example.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

To further clarify

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

That "one" in the Koine Greek is in the neuter gender indicating of one essence. The Jews wanted to stone Jesus for His declaration of divinity which they of course considered blasphemy.

Yeshua's relationship with YHWH His Father, while He was manifest to the world as the Son of God, is uniquely different from the Christians and Jews understanding of God as our own Father. As well as our being sons of God.

The Bible describes this relationship as a mystery, and it is difficult to wrap one's head around, even when one is steeped in the Gospel. However Jesus Himself did declare that He was God, YHWH, "I AM", as well as being the Son and the Father. YHWH and Yeshua are coexistent.

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The ONE mediator for old covenant saints too. From mankind's beginnings.

Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

To the limited capacity of 7th century southwest Arabian desert dwellers, the Godhead as it is progressively revealed throughout Jesus earthly life as recorded in the Gospel, would have certainly presented a challenge for those lacking understanding through the Spirit. However there isn't a Muslim alive today that would not admit to the complexity of God as (in their words), "the one ... who confounds all human understanding", for example. Yet when they come to this forum apparently believing they can somehow defend Mohammed's 7th century religion, by denigrating Christianity and God's 1600 year record, their posts wind up suggesting that they believe God should be as easy to understand, and describe, as their next door neighbor.

Yet not a single one of them would reasonably deny that if God wanted to "manifest" (reveal) Himself as 5 different people, in 5 different countries, and move in next door to 5 other households, and carry on conversations with all 5 neighbors, in 5 different languages all at the same time, that all Mohammed's "Allah" would have to do to accomplish this is to say "be" and it would be. They also could not deny that if God so decided, He could have one of those people die a physical death in a car wreck, and another in a plane crash. He would only have to say "be".

The Godhead is described in the Gospel as a "mystery" so we should automatically presume that we may not be able to entirely wrap our human minds around it.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

But genuinely seeking the truth of God doesn't allow us to limit our view through the lens of our finite human understanding or failed logic, let alone by filtering it through the limited understanding of a 7th century southwest Arabian desert dwelling illiterate, or by indoctrination into other misguided cults who follow false teachers and false prophets.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=80.0

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

When it comes to scripture, most of Mohammed's defenders do little more than parrot removed bits and pieces from the context of the Gospel, advanced by Greek sophist styled liars, rather than actually reading the Gospel for themselves.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/

No surprise that they never get around to proof-texting the following verse from the conclusion of the gradually unfolding mystery ...

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.


Peter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 8702
  • the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
    • View Profile
    • False Prophet Muhammad