Author Topic: Veneration of the Quraish Pagan's Black Stone Idol and Ka'aba  (Read 33779 times)

punisher

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Re: Veneration of the Black Stone in the Ka'aba
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2010, 03:31:16 AM »
It isn't about what I think or feel.
It is a simple matter of fact. Muslims VENERATE the black stone just like the pagans did, and just as the pictures I included of those pagan rituals in this thread.
Just like the Arabian jinn devil worshipers did as well as the Arabian Star Family worshipers.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Let end you Feeling Peter?
 

The blood of a Muslim Believer is more precious than the entire Kaaba!

Some anti-Islamics tried to compare the Muslims' bowing towards the Kaaba to the hindus' pagan and Arabian Star Family worshipers deification and glorification of their stones, by making idol gods and holy temples for these gods out of them.  Islam is far from this!

The hindus glorification of stones and rocks is not Islamic.  We do not worship neither the Kaaba nor the black stone.  In fact Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said in his famous saying that:

???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???????
 
"Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim." (source)

Why should this be of any surprise, when Allah Almighty had brought down all of the Angels under the feet of the human-believers when He commanded them to bow down to Adam?

So no, we do not worship rocks and stones.


Peter

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Re: Veneration of the Black Stone in the Ka'aba
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2010, 04:41:02 AM »
It isn't about what I think or feel.
It is a simple matter of fact. Muslims VENERATE the black stone just like the pagans did, and just as the pictures I included of those pagan rituals in this thread.
Just like the Arabian jinn devil worshipers did as well as the Arabian Star Family worshipers.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

Let end you Feeling Peter?

The blood of a Muslim Believer is more precious than the entire Kaaba!

That's right. Nothing is more revered to Mohammed's bloodthirsty moon god "Allah" than when a Muslim was inadvertently killed while in the act of slaughtering others through imperialistic conquest. That's why young Muslims strap on suicide vests, and travel to participate in foreign wars.

Some anti-Islamics tried to compare the Muslims' bowing towards the Kaaba to the hindus' pagan and Arabian Star Family worshipers deification and glorification of their stones, by making idol gods and holy temples for these gods out of them.  Islam is far from this!

As we can see from this thread, yours is a hollow claim. You venerate the very same stone that the pagans venerated.

The hindus glorification of stones and rocks is not Islamic.  We do not worship neither the Kaaba nor the black stone.

We already established that Muslims do not WORSHIP the black stone any more than the pagans did. It REPRESENTED the moon god for them. Mohammed put a preposterous twist on things that Allah actually physically sent the stone, so for Muslims it REPRESENTS Allah. That's why you bow to it and VENERATE it.

  In fact Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said in his famous saying that:

???? ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???????
 
"Demolishing the Kaaba completely is much more preferred to Allah Almighty than shedding the blood of a Believing Muslim." (source)

Why should this be of any surprise,.....

It's not at all a surprise. It shows just how important slaughtering others in maniacal suicidal rage was to Mohammed's bloodthirsty Allah. And to his followers unto today.

....... when Allah Almighty had brought down all of the Angels under the feet of the human-believers when He commanded them to bow down to Adam?

So no, we do not worship rocks and stones.

That's right. You VENERATE them and perform the very same ceremonies that Mohammed lifted from the pagans.
Indeed the only difference in the Sa'ee from the way the pagan jinn/devil worshipers performed it, and the way the Mohammedans perform it unto today, is that the two stone idols that occupied Al-Safa and Al-Marwah, have been removed.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1282.0

StreetPreacher

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Re: Veneration of the Black Stone in the Ka'aba
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 03:11:06 AM »
Is it only coincidental that the outer housing of what holds the "black stone" is rather vaginal looking? Yet another appeal to the carnal, natural man by satan?

Peter

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Re: Veneration of the Black Stone in the Ka'aba
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 05:47:46 AM »
Is it only coincidental that the outer housing of what holds the "black stone" is rather vaginal looking? Yet another appeal to the carnal, natural man by satan?

Hi StreetPreacher and welcome to the forum! :)

Since we try to maintain a G-rated forum,  :-[ ;D suffice it to say that you are not the first to make that observation as this Bing search and YouTube search attest!

While putting together those links I visited a page devoted to defense of Islamic veneration of the Quraish pagan's black stone idol (the pagan's didn't worship the stone either - they venerated it as representing their god, just as Muslims do). I saw again the typical defense for kissing the black stone idol (which the hadith says was once white but sins of pilgrims turned it black):

Quote
Do Muslims Worship the Black Stone (al-Hajaru-l-Aswad)?

No.

Muslims do not worship this stone. Kissing does not constitute worship. In fact Umar, the second Khalifah and companion of the Prophet Muhammed (p), made this perfectly clear when he said:

Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "NO DOUBT, I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A STONE AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT ANYONE NOR HARM ANYONE. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." [2]

This clearly shows us the back stone is not meant to be worshipped by Muslims. In fact this would negate a person’s iman (belief/faith), i.e. if a Muslim did worship the stone then he/she would be considered non-Muslim as only Allah has the right to be worshipped.

It struck me that their typical defense for kissing the stone, really helps drive home the point I was making with our most recent Muslim member.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=3485.msg14577#msg14577
That Muhammad's followers follow Muhammad alone.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=2656.0
Tragically they have placed their faith and trust in Muhammad alone, to believe the exact opposite, of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Again, welcome to the forum StreetPreacher!


ExMilitary

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Re: Veneration of the Black Stone in the Ka'aba
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2013, 09:54:05 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hczs4OFxBk8

I'm not sure what this was, but YouTube banned it as "hate speech"

PeteWaldo

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Re: Veneration of the Black Stone in the Ka'aba
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2013, 04:13:26 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hczs4OFxBk8

I'm not sure what this was, but YouTube banned it as "hate speech"

I don't remember what it was, but you can pretty much count on it not having been anything like hate speech. Like the video at the following link on apostasy in Islam that has been banned over and over on YouTube, so I got tired of always having a dead link in Forum posts to it, so I uploaded it to my GodTube channel:
http://www.godtube.com/watch/?v=DLDWGGNX

PeteWaldo

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Re: Veneration of the Quraish Pagan's Black Stone Idol and Ka'aba
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 10:26:38 AM »
While posting in another forum the old Muslim line that they do not worship the black stone idol came up. But then, certainly not I, have ever accused them of that. Muslims VENERATE the Quraish pagan's black stone idol, as REPRESENTING their deity "Allah", just as the Quraish pagan's VENERATED the same black stone idol as REPRESENTING their pagan deity.

The Quraish didn't worship that black stone idol either. They didn't believe that rock was their god, and it's ridiculous for Muslims to suggest that the Quraish worshiped that rock, any more than Muslims do. Muhammad, and his followers unto today, come much closer worshiping the black stone idol than the Quraish likely did, by physically kissing it. Suggesting more of a personal relationship with the rock itself.

Did the Quraish pagan's prostrate toward their black stone idol 5 times a day? I don't believe there is any evidence that suggests that they did.
Do Muslims prostrate toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol 5 times a day? Yes, they have been obliged to, ever since Muhammad copied the prostrating in prayer 5 times a day from the Sabians.
http://www.brotherpete.com/sabians_islam.htm

ExMilitary

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Re: Veneration of the Quraish Pagan's Black Stone Idol and Ka'aba
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2014, 08:57:06 AM »
Leviticus 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God.

Idol: an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

Bowing down before a "representative" stone anyting is idolatry.

PeteWaldo

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Re: Veneration of the Quraish Pagan's Black Stone Idol and Ka'aba
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2015, 08:24:35 AM »
"I have not seen Allah's Apostle touching except the two Yemenite corners....." (Book #72, Hadith #742)

What "two Yemenite corners" do you suppose that would be referring to?

".....So the Prophet ordered his companions to do Ramal (i.e. fast walking) in the first three rounds of Tawaf around the Ka'ba and to walk in between the two corners (i.e. the black stone and the Yemenite corner)". (Book #59, Hadith #557)
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https://justislam.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/station-of-abraham-and-zamzam-well/

Station of Abraham and Zamzam Well

Station of Ibraheem (Abraham)

The Prophet said:

‘The Yemeni corner and Station of Ibraheem are two precious stones from Jannah (Heavenly Gardens), and had it not been that Allah removed their light, they would have enlightened all that was between the east and the west.’ (Ibn Hibban)

The Station of Ibraheem is the rock upon which Ibraheem stood while erecting the Kabah. His son Ishmael helped him erect it, by passing him the rocks.