Author Topic: Islam and Women  (Read 38753 times)

PeteWaldo

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Re: Comparison between two groups of women
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2013, 08:30:55 AM »
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Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, unless of course, you are willing to suggest that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher simply because he declared he was married to her.

I don't know please provide the detail from authentic source

Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.

Surely you aren't going to try to deny that Mohammed "married" Aisha when she was 6, and that 52 year old Mohammed had sex with Aisha when she was only 9 years old!
Regarding your request for "authentic source".

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm
1. Sahih al-Bukhari 810-870 A.D. 256 A.H.

1a. "Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.236 p.153.

1b. The same points are in Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.234 p.152.

1c. "Narrated ‘Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six year old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.60 no.88 p.65

1d. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect. Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.115 no.163 p.119

1e. "Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam), and (I don't remember) a single day passing without our being visited by Allah’s Apostle in the morning and in the evening." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.44 no.245 p.158. Thus ‘Aisha was either not very old or not born yet when her parents became Muslims. This is consistent with her being a child when her marriage with Mohammed was consummated.

2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. "(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and here dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

2c. "(5981) ’A’isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.

2d. (5982) This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Hisham with the same chain of transmitters with a slight variation of wording." Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 29 ch.1005 no.5981-5982 p.1299

3. Sunan Abu Dawud 817-888/9 A.D. 275 A.H.

3a. "(2116) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said : Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.2 book 5 ch.700 no.2116 p.569

3b. "(4913) ‘A’ishah said : I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1769 no.4913 p.1373

Note carefully this is NOT saying Mohammed had intercourse with A’isha while her playmates were watching. Rather it says the playmates played with her, and they went out when Mohammed came by, and could come back after he left.

3c. "(4915) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Abu Dawud said : That is to say : I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari (Helpers) in it. They said : With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915 p.1374

3d. (5916) [typo, really 4916] The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Abu Usamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: ‘With good fortune.’ She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4916 p.1374

3e. (4917) ‘A’ishah said: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were [sp] up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4917 p.1374

3f. (4918) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Hisham b. ‘Urwah through a different chain of narrators. This version adds: I was swinging and I had my friends. They brought me to a house ; there were some women of the Ansar (Helpers). They said : With good luck and blessing. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4918 p.1374

3g. (4919) ‘A’ishah said : We came to Medina and stayed with Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. She said : I swear by Allah, I was swinging between two date-palms. Then my mother came, and made me come down; and I had my hair up to the ears. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915-4919 p.1374.

Conclusion on Abu Dawud: 7 references and no counter-references affirm that A’isha was nine.

4. Tirmidhi 825-892 A.D. 209-279 A.H.

"..Ahmad and Is'haq said that if a female orphan reaches nine years old and was wed with her consent, then the marriage is permissible and she will have no choice when she matures. The two relied on a hadith by Ai'sha stating that the prophet peace be upon him had sexual relations with her when she was nine. Aisha said, if the little girl reaches nine then she is a woman" Tirmidhi said: A good hadith. (Tirmidhi, "Marriage according to Allah's apostle", #1027)

5. Sunan Nas’ai 830-915 A.D. 215-303 A.H.

5a. A'shah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was six and had intercourse with her when she was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3255)

5b. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was seven and had intercourse with me when I was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

5c. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was nine and I accompanied him for nine years. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3257)

5d. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was nine and died when she was eighteen. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3258)

5e. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was six and had intercourse with me when I was nine and I was playing with dolls. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

Note that the previous are in original Arabic, but were not in the English translation. However, the English translator at the front wrote the following under #18.

"When Hadrat "A'isha passed nine years of married life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness. On the 9th or the 12th of Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 A.H., he left this mortal world…Hadrat "A'isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven." Sunan Nasa’i vol.1 #18 p.108-109 (English material at the front)

Note that she had nine years of married life with Mohammed, and since he died when she was eighteen, she was nine years old when she started her married life with Mohammed.
Conclusion on Sunan Nasa'i: Not counting English translation notes, the Arabic has 5 references and no counter-references to affirm that A’isha was nine.

6. Ibn-i-Majah 824-886/887 A.D. 273 A.H.

6a. A’isha was married when she was six years old, and nine when she went to Mohammed’s house. Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1876 p.133

6b. A’isha was married at seven, went to Mohammed’s house at nine, and was 18 when Mohammed died. According to al-Zawa’id, its isnad is sahih according to the condition of Bukhari. However Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father, so it is munqata (has a gap) Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1877 p.134.

7. The Historian ibn Ishaq - died 767/773 A.D. 145/151 A.H.

7a. "Yahya b. Abbad b. Abdullah b. al-Zubayr from his father told me that he heard Aisha say: "The apostle died in my bosom during my turn: I had wronged none in regard to him. It was due to my ignorance and extreme youth that the apostle died in my arms."
(Guillaume, A., The Life of Muhammad, a translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, Oxford University Press, Karachi, Pakistan, page 682). A’isha said she was an extreme youth when Mohammed died.

8. The Historian al-Tabari - died 923 A.D.

8a. ‘Aisha was 6 (or 7) years old when she was married, and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.9 p.129-131. Muhammad b. ‘Amr is one of the transmitters.

8b. ‘Aisha was 6-7 when married, and the marriage was consummated when she was 9-10, three months after coming to Mecca al-Tabari vol.7 p.7. The chain of transmission includes an unnamed man from the Quraysh.

8c. Aisha died in June-July 678 A.D. (A.H. 58) at the age of 66. That would make her born in 610 A.D.. al-Tabari says she consummated her marriage with the prophet when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.39 p.171,173. (al-Tabari wrote 38 volumes of history, plus a 39th volume called Biographies of the Prophet’s Companions and Their Successors.)

X 8c. On the other hand, al-Tabari also wrote that i.e. "All four of his [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period." (Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, vol.4, p.50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979. al-Tabari vol.11 p.141 also mentions this, with footnote 766 saying al-Tabari has a conflict here. The footnote also says that al-Baladhuri’s Ansab I, p.409-411; Ibn Hajar’s Isabah IV, p.359-360 supports her being married by 9 years old.

Majority Muslim Explanations

There are two basic categories of answers Muslims have for this: the majority agree that these hadiths are reliable here, and a minority disagree.

The majority view affirms the reliability of these hadiths. If the hadiths and historians are to be trusted, then Mohammed, at around 53 years old, did have sex with a nine year old girl. As one Muslim told me "… and I bet A’isha was the happiest nine-year old girl in the world".

In 2005, the following defunct web page also said this, and also accused liberal Muslims of catering to western morality and denying the truth. http: // admin.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Polemics/aishah.html

Footnote 1958 on p.715 says in part: "According to Imam Shafi’i, marriage in childhood is not something appreciable. It was under some exceptional circumstances that Hadrat ‘A’isha was married to the Prophet (may peace be upon him). The second point to be noted is that Islam has laid down no age limit for puberty for it varies with countries and races due to climate, hereditary, physical and social conditions. Those who live in cold regions attain puberty at a much later age as compared with those living in hot regions where both male and female attain it at a quite early age. "The average temperature of the country or province,’ says the well-known authors of the book Woman, "is considered the chief factor here, not only with regard to menstruation but as regards the whole of sexual development at puberty. … Similarly, the author of Kinsey Report states: ‘The incidence of pre-adolescent sex play at particular ages (active incidence) seems to have been highest in the younger age groups. Some eight per cent of the females in the sample recalled pre-adolescent hetero-sexual play at ages five and seven" (Alfred C. Kinsey and Others, Sexual Behaviour in the Human Female, p.110)" -- All of this was quoted from Sahih Muslim vol.2 footnote 1958 p.715.

The translator of Sahih Muslim vol.2 gives an explanation in footnote 1960 on p.716. "The Holy Prophet’s (may peace be upon him) marriage with ‘A’isha has been criticized by the Western critics. It is, however, strange that contemporary critics of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) who leveled all kinds of charges against him did not make any mention, not in the least, of this marriage. It should be borne in mind that, like all acts of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), even this marriage had a Divine purpose behind it. Hadrat ‘A’isha was a precocious girl and was developing both in mind and body with rapidity peculiar to such rare personalities. She was admitted to the house of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) just at the threshold of her puberty, the most impressionable and formative period of her life. … Even from the psycho-sexual standpoint it was a happy union as it is evident from the records of the Hadith. ‘When the difference (in ages),’ says Von De Velde, Director of the Gynaeological [sp] Clinic at Harlem [New York?], ‘is great, e.g. exceeds fifteen or twenty years, the results may be happier. The marriage of an elderly (senescent) - not, of course an old (senile) - man to a quite young girl, is often very successful and harmonious The bride is immediately introduced and accustomed to moderate sexual intercourse" (Ideal Marriage, Its Psychology and Technique, London, 1962 p.243)." Sahih Muslim vol.2 p.716.

Certainly nothing's changed regarding filthy old lechers doing children in Islam.




   

PeteWaldo

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Re: Comparison between two groups of women
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2013, 08:33:57 AM »
2. Then after that you can show us where God condones that behavior for priests.

Little wonder why we hear from the media about Priests that are in involved with Pedophilic acts. However, from where these Priests inspire to do such acts? The answer is that they inspire from Bible. Actually, Pedophilia was born from this book of perversion. Let us see some passages that clearly support Pedophilia and Rape of preteen girls

Numbers 31: 17-18

17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.


The Jewish soldiers were commanded by “God” in the bible to keep the woman children (little girls) for themselves! In addition, they commanded to kill every woman that hath know a man by lying with him. How these soldiers in those days know if the girls are virgin or not? Simply they verify it by raping them and if the Jews discovered that they are non-virgins then they kill them as they commanded by “God”.

I suppose that would be the only solution in the mind of a male Muslim since that's what Mohammed and his boys did IN THE 7TH CENTURY.
It wouldn't occur to you that they would be asked, or verify by whether they had children or not.
But where in this record of a historical event of a few thousand years ago does it instruct Christian priests to molest children?
   

PeteWaldo

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Re: Comparison between two groups of women
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2013, 08:37:13 AM »
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Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.


Can u please Tell

IS Marrying Mean Rape

Which is Better Raping the Girl of 13 Year or Marry Her?

Are Marrying and Raping Equal To You?


Rape is obviously always wrong. It isn't about what is better or worse.
A marriage is engaged in by 2 consenting adults.
Do you really believe a 9 year old girl would desire to marry a 52 year old man?
Do you think that is what she would choose?
Do you think a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a 52 year old?
Do you think a female prisoner would desire to have sex with the very people responsible for the murder/beheading of her husband, father brother and/or son?

Bukhari:V5B59N459 "I entered the Mosque, saw Abu, sat beside him and asked about sex. Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah’s Apostle and we received female slaves from among the captives. We desired women and we loved to do coitus interruptus."
   

PeteWaldo

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Re: Comparison between two groups of women
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2013, 08:51:22 AM »
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Now #2

We know that Mohammed and the boys raped young girls, unless of course, you are willing to suggest that a 9 year old girl would desire to have sex with a dirty old lecher simply because he declared he was married to her.

I don't know please provide the detail from authentic source

Answer this only after the prior 2 posts.

Surely you aren't going to try to deny that Mohammed "married" Aisha when she was 6, and that 52 year old Mohammed had sex with Aisha when she was only 9 years old!
Regarding your request for "authentic source".

http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm
1. Sahih al-Bukhari 810-870 A.D. 256 A.H.

1a. "Narrated Hisham’s father: Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.236 p.153.

1b. The same points are in Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.43 no.234 p.152.

1c. "Narrated ‘Urwa: The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six year old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.60 no.88 p.65

1d. Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet was screening me with his Rida' (garment covering the upper part of the body) while I was looking at the Ethiopians who were playing in the courtyard of the mosque. (I continued watching) till I was satisfied. So you may deduce from this event how a little girl (who has not reached the age of puberty) who is eager to enjoy amusement should be treated in this respect. Bukhari vol.7 book 62 ch.115 no.163 p.119

1e. "Narrated 'Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion (i.e. Islam), and (I don't remember) a single day passing without our being visited by Allah’s Apostle in the morning and in the evening." Bukhari vol.5 book 58 ch.44 no.245 p.158. Thus ‘Aisha was either not very old or not born yet when her parents became Muslims. This is consistent with her being a child when her marriage with Mohammed was consummated.

2. Sahih Muslim 817-875 A.D. 261 A.H.

This is generally considered the second most reliable collection of hadiths.

2a. "(3309) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine. She further said: We went to Medina and I had an attack of fever for a month, and my hair had come down to the earlobes. Umm Ruman (my mother) came to me and I was at that time on a swing along with my playmates. She called me loudly and I went to her and I did not know what she had wanted of me. She too hold of my hand and took me to the door, and I was saying: Ha, ha (as if I was gasping), until the agitation of my heart was over. She took me to a house, where had gathered the women of the Ansar. They all blessed me and wished me good luck and said: May you have shared in good. She (my mother) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and embellished me and nothing frightened me. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) came there in the morning, and I was entrusted to him." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3309 p.715-716

2b. "(3310) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old."

(3311) ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married here when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and here dolls were with her: and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 ch.548 no.3310,3311 p.716.

2c. "(5981) ’A’isha reported that she used to play with dolls in the presence of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and when her playmates came to her they left (the house) because they felt shy of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), whereas Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent them to her.

2d. (5982) This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Hisham with the same chain of transmitters with a slight variation of wording." Sahih Muslim vol.4 book 29 ch.1005 no.5981-5982 p.1299

3. Sunan Abu Dawud 817-888/9 A.D. 275 A.H.

3a. "(2116) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said : Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.2 book 5 ch.700 no.2116 p.569

3b. "(4913) ‘A’ishah said : I used to play with dolls. Sometimes the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered upon me when the girls were with me. When he came in, they went out, and when he went out, they came in." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1769 no.4913 p.1373

Note carefully this is NOT saying Mohammed had intercourse with A’isha while her playmates were watching. Rather it says the playmates played with her, and they went out when Mohammed came by, and could come back after he left.

3c. "(4915) ‘A’ishah said : The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.

Abu Dawud said : That is to say : I menstruated, and I was brought in a house, and there were some women of the Ansari (Helpers) in it. They said : With good luck and blessing. The tradition of one of them has been included in the other. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915 p.1374

3d. (5916) [typo, really 4916] The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Abu Usamah in a similar manner through a different chain of narrators. This version has: ‘With good fortune.’ She (Umm Ruman) entrusted me to them. They washed my head and redressed me. No one came to me suddenly except the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) in the forenoon. So they entrusted me to him. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4916 p.1374

3e. (4917) ‘A’ishah said: When we came to Medina, the women came to me when I was playing on the swing, and my hair were [sp] up to my ears. They brought me, prepared me, and decorated me. Then they brought me to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and he took up cohabitation with me, when I was nine. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4917 p.1374

3f. (4918) The tradition mentioned above has also been transmitted by Hisham b. ‘Urwah through a different chain of narrators. This version adds: I was swinging and I had my friends. They brought me to a house ; there were some women of the Ansar (Helpers). They said : With good luck and blessing. Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4918 p.1374

3g. (4919) ‘A’ishah said : We came to Medina and stayed with Banu al-Harith b. al-Khazraj. She said : I swear by Allah, I was swinging between two date-palms. Then my mother came, and made me come down; and I had my hair up to the ears. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition." Sunan Abu Dawud vol.3 book 36 ch.1770 no.4915-4919 p.1374.

Conclusion on Abu Dawud: 7 references and no counter-references affirm that A’isha was nine.

4. Tirmidhi 825-892 A.D. 209-279 A.H.

"..Ahmad and Is'haq said that if a female orphan reaches nine years old and was wed with her consent, then the marriage is permissible and she will have no choice when she matures. The two relied on a hadith by Ai'sha stating that the prophet peace be upon him had sexual relations with her when she was nine. Aisha said, if the little girl reaches nine then she is a woman" Tirmidhi said: A good hadith. (Tirmidhi, "Marriage according to Allah's apostle", #1027)

5. Sunan Nas’ai 830-915 A.D. 215-303 A.H.

5a. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was six and had intercourse with her when she was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3255)

5b. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was seven and had intercourse with me when I was nine. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

5c. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was nine and I accompanied him for nine years. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3257)

5d. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married her when she was nine and died when she was eighteen. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3258)

5e. A'ishah said: The Apostle of Allah peace be upon him married me when I was six and had intercourse with me when I was nine and I was playing with dolls. (Sunan Nas’ai, Book of Marriage, no.3256)

Note that the previous are in original Arabic, but were not in the English translation. However, the English translator at the front wrote the following under #18.

"When Hadrat A'isha passed nine years of married life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness. On the 9th or the 12th of Rabi-ul-Awwal 11 A.H., he left this mortal world…Hadrat A'isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven." Sunan Nasa’i vol.1 #18 p.108-109 (English material at the front)

Note that she had nine years of married life with Mohammed, and since he died when she was eighteen, she was nine years old when she started her married life with Mohammed.
Conclusion on Sunan Nasa'i: Not counting English translation notes, the Arabic has 5 references and no counter-references to affirm that A’isha was nine.

6. Ibn-i-Majah 824-886/887 A.D. 273 A.H.

6a. A’isha was married when she was six years old, and nine when she went to Mohammed’s house. Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1876 p.133

6b. A’isha was married at seven, went to Mohammed’s house at nine, and was 18 when Mohammed died. According to al-Zawa’id, its isnad is sahih according to the condition of Bukhari. However Abu ‘Ubaida did not hear from his father, so it is munqata (has a gap) Ibn-i-Majah vol.3 book 9 ch.13 no.1877 p.134.

7. The Historian ibn Ishaq - died 767/773 A.D. 145/151 A.H.

7a. "Yahya b. Abbad b. Abdullah b. al-Zubayr from his father told me that he heard Aisha say: "The apostle died in my bosom during my turn: I had wronged none in regard to him. It was due to my ignorance and extreme youth that the apostle died in my arms."
(Guillaume, A., The Life of Muhammad, a translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, Oxford University Press, Karachi, Pakistan, page 682). A’isha said she was an extreme youth when Mohammed died.

8. The Historian al-Tabari - died 923 A.D.

8a. ‘Aisha was 6 (or 7) years old when she was married, and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.9 p.129-131. Muhammad b. ‘Amr is one of the transmitters.

8b. ‘Aisha was 6-7 when married, and the marriage was consummated when she was 9-10, three months after coming to Mecca al-Tabari vol.7 p.7. The chain of transmission includes an unnamed man from the Quraysh.

8c. Aisha died in June-July 678 A.D. (A.H. 58) at the age of 66. That would make her born in 610 A.D.. al-Tabari says she consummated her marriage with the prophet when she was nine years old. al-Tabari vol.39 p.171,173. (al-Tabari wrote 38 volumes of history, plus a 39th volume called Biographies of the Prophet’s Companions and Their Successors.)

X 8c. On the other hand, al-Tabari also wrote that i.e. "All four of his [Abu Bakr’s] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period." (Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, vol.4, p.50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979. al-Tabari vol.11 p.141 also mentions this, with footnote 766 saying al-Tabari has a conflict here. The footnote also says that al-Baladhuri’s Ansab I, p.409-411; Ibn Hajar’s Isabah IV, p.359-360 supports her being married by 9 years old.

Majority Muslim Explanations

There are two basic categories of answers Muslims have for this: the majority agree that these hadiths are reliable here, and a minority disagree.

The majority view affirms the reliability of these hadiths. If the hadiths and historians are to be trusted, then Mohammed, at around 53 years old, did have sex with a nine year old girl. As one Muslim told me "… and I bet A’isha was the happiest nine-year old girl in the world".

In 2005, the following defunct web page also said this, and also accused liberal Muslims of catering to western morality and denying the truth. http: // admin.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Polemics/aishah.html
Footnote 1958 on p.715 says in part: "According to Imam Shafi’i, marriage in childhood is not something appreciable. It was under some exceptional circumstances that Hadrat ‘A’isha was married to the Prophet (may peace be upon him). The second point to be noted is that Islam has laid down no age limit for puberty for it varies with countries and races due to climate, hereditary, physical and social conditions. Those who live in cold regions attain puberty at a much later age as compared with those living in hot regions where both male and female attain it at a quite early age. "The average temperature of the country or province,’ says the well-known authors of the book Woman, "is considered the chief factor here, not only with regard to menstruation but as regards the whole of sexual development at puberty. … Similarly, the author of Kinsey Report states: ‘The incidence of pre-adolescent sex play at particular ages (active incidence) seems to have been highest in the younger age groups. Some eight per cent of the females in the sample recalled pre-adolescent hetero-sexual play at ages five and seven" (Alfred C. Kinsey and Others, Sexual Behaviour in the Human Female, p.110)" -- All of this was quoted from Sahih Muslim vol.2 footnote 1958 p.715.

The translator of Sahih Muslim vol.2 gives an explanation in footnote 1960 on p.716. "The Holy Prophet’s (may peace be upon him) marriage with ‘A’isha has been criticized by the Western critics. It is, however, strange that contemporary critics of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) who leveled all kinds of charges against him did not make any mention, not in the least, of this marriage. It should be borne in mind that, like all acts of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), even this marriage had a Divine purpose behind it. Hadrat ‘A’isha was a precocious girl and was developing both in mind and body with rapidity peculiar to such rare personalities. She was admitted to the house of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) just at the threshold of her puberty, the most impressionable and formative period of her life. … Even from the psycho-sexual standpoint it was a happy union as it is evident from the records of the Hadith. ‘When the difference (in ages),’ says Von De Velde, Director of the Gynaeological [sp] Clinic at Harlem [New York?], ‘is great, e.g. exceeds fifteen or twenty years, the results may be happier. The marriage of an elderly (senescent) - not, of course an old (senile) - man to a quite young girl, is often very successful and harmonious The bride is immediately introduced and accustomed to moderate sexual intercourse" (Ideal Marriage, Its Psychology and Technique, London, 1962 p.243)." Sahih Muslim vol.2 p.716.

Certainly nothing's changed regarding filthy old lechers doing children in Islam.





PeteWaldo

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Re: Islam and Women
« Reply #79 on: December 26, 2013, 02:03:03 PM »
(1) Narrated 'Ikrima: Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow,"  (Book #72, Hadith #715)


PeteWaldo

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Re: Islam and Women
« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2014, 02:04:01 PM »
This is from a M.D. at Hadassah Hospital in Israel, Dr. Arieh Eldad:

The (Muslim) Arab Mentality...

It is really hard for western society to understand this kind of thinking. It is counter to civilized understanding. The (Muslim) Arab Mentality...

I was instrumental in establishing the Israeli National Skin Bank, which is the largest in the world. The National Skin Bank stores skin for every day needs as well as for war time or mass casualty situations. The skin bank is hosted at the Hadassah Ein Kerem University hospital in Jerusalem where I was the Chairman of plastic surgery. This is how I was asked to supply skin for an (Muslim) Arab woman from Gaza, who was hospitalized in Soroka Hospital in Beersheva, after her family burned her. Usually, such atrocities happen among (Muslim) Arab families when the women are suspected of having an affair.
 
We supplied all the needed Homograft for her treatment. She was successfully treated by my friend and colleague, Prof. Lior Rosenberg and discharged to return to Gaza. She was invited for regular follow-up visits to the outpatient clinic in Beersheva.

One day she was caught at a border crossing wearing a suicide belt. Her mission was to explode herself in the outpatient clinic of the hospital where they saved her life. It seems that her family promised her that if she did that, they would forgive her. This is only one example of the war between Jews and Muslims in the Land of Israel. It is not a territorial conflict. This is a civilizational conflict, or rather a war between civilization and barbarism. Bibi (Netanyahu) gets it, Obama does not.

I have never written before asking to please forward onwards, so that as many as possible can understand radical Islam and what awaits the world if it is not stopped.

-Dr. Arieh Eldad

kometa2

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Re: Islam and Women
« Reply #82 on: September 26, 2014, 05:05:28 AM »
islam is a living  hell on earth for women.
Muslims say women are respected in islam. But when you read koran you see allah commands to beat wives if they dont obey (4;34), he degraded women by polygamy, dehumanizes them by hijab, calls them unclean, inferrior and less intelligent, tells men to rule women, allows temporal marriages and marrying children, circumcision and honor killing. And you still say women are respected? They are not, islam treats women as animals.

instead of islam teach men to grow up and take responsibility for their lives and actions islam blames women for all men's problems and lusts. this way men are made weak and immature and women are demonized and dehumanized as the root problem of all evil. no wonder islam treats them as cattle and men's property

Islam does not consider rape to be a crime against a woman. It is a crime against their fathers and husbands. In a tribal society, rape is a crime against property and honor. To a father, his daughter's virginity is a valuable item that increases her market value. Marrying her off is way to build a relationship between two families. To a husband, his wife's chastity maintains the value of his property and insures that the offspring is his. To assault a woman is to commit a crime against the communal property of a family. But a woman herself has no rights over her body that any man is bound to respect.

If Allah existed only to enable women to sexually service Mohammed-- what agency can women have in Islam?Muslim rape culture springs from that same code. A code that exists to please and flatter the Muslim male and demean the female as an inferior specimen, whose body is filth, whose form is corruption and who can only be good to the extent that she becomes a non-person. Remaining quiet and out of sight. It begins with the inferiority of women, and ends with a paradise filled with eternal virgins who can never say no.

we dont see true islam in the west. Men cant marry a child or have more than 1 wife nor beat his wife or they would go to jail for it. BUT the things that are evil and immoral  in the west are allowed and practiced in all islamic nations. In the west islam is polished and civilized. Muslims cant stone, behead or cut off hands or feet and such is the true face of islam! BUT the true God is love, holiness and forgiveness, not abuse, discrimination and immorality as alah is.

PeteWaldo

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Re: Islam and Women
« Reply #83 on: September 26, 2014, 06:23:33 AM »
Thank you for that kometa2. Would you happen to be a former Muslim, or are you from a Muslim controlled country (though that would increasingly describe the U.S. as well!)?