Author Topic: The prophethood of Mohammed  (Read 5668 times)

Peter

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The prophethood of Mohammed
« on: August 11, 2009, 09:39:42 AM »
While there is no shortage of prophecy in the Quran, how is Mohammed's prophethood proven, since not a single prophecy has ever been fulfilled? Combined with the absence of a single person ever witnessing Gabriel or Allah's voice, when giving Mohammed one of the "revelations" that he claimed came from them, the evidence becomes even weaker.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=542.0
Let alone - as Muslims will agree - that Mohammed never performed a single miracle.
How can Muhammad's words be trusted? Particularly since he was and taught the exact opposite, of Jesus and ALL of the New Testament prophets and disciples?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=148.0
Getting the testimonies of even the Old Testament prophets all goofed up and backwards.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=237.0

"The Holy Bible gives us a test to determine a true prophet from a false one:

    "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death. You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." Deuteronomy 18:20-22
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/false_prophecies.htm

"Muhammad allegedly claimed that the Antichrist (called the Dajjal) was to appear shortly after the Muslim conquest of Constantinople. The following traditions are taken from the Sunan Abu Dawud:

Book 37, Number 4281: Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:
    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The flourishing state of Jerusalem will be when Yathrib is in ruins, the ruined state of Yathrib will be when the great war comes, the outbreak of the great war will be at the conquest of Constantinople and the conquest of Constantinople when the Dajjal (Antichrist) comes forth. He (the Prophet) struck his thigh or his shoulder with his hand and said: This is as true as you are here or as you are sitting (meaning Mu'adh ibn Jabal).

Book 37, Number 4282: Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal:
    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The greatest war, the conquest of Constantinople and the coming forth of the Dajjal (Antichrist) will take place within a period of seven months.

Book 37, Number 4283: Narrated Abdullah ibn Busr:
    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The time between the great war and the conquest of the city (Constantinople) will be six years, and the Dajjal (Antichrist) will come forth in the seventh.
______________________

    "Consequently, because this is so and the report on the authority of the Messenger of God is sound- namely, that he reported that what remained of the time of this world during his lifetime was half a day, or five hundred years, since five hundred years are half a day of the days, of which one is a thousand years- the conclusion is that the time of this world that had elapsed to the moment of the Prophet's statement corresponds to what we have transmitted on the authority of Abu Tha'labah al-Khushani from the Prophet, and is 6,500 years or approximately 6,500 years. God knows best!" (Tabari, pp. 182-183, bold emphasis ours)

Hence, according to these traditions Muhammad believed that not only was the world less than 7,000 years old but it was to end on the seventh day, or seven thousand years from the time it was created.

Accordingly, the world should have ended sometime between 1070-1132 AD, approximately 500 years after the birth and death of Muhammad. This is based on the fact that according to at-Tabari and others, the advent of Muhammad took place approximately 6,500 years from the time of creation. This is clearly a false prophecy."
http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/false_prophecies.htm
____________________

Other areas of this forum detail several other, false prophets that also associate their false teachings with the Bible, that have followings of millions of people today, whose books also came along after God's record was closed in the first century. Not surprisingly they share the same record as Mohammed regarding fulfillment of their prophecies.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=137.0
Jim Jones and David Koresh shared the same record.

I have searched online for fulfilled prophecy in the Quran but have yet to find any. I don't mean the kind of stuff like "Mohammed had a vision of a bright light in the sky and by that it's only logical that it was a prophesy of the space shuttle".

The purpose of this thread is to collect and discuss evidence of the prophethood of Mohammed as proven through fulfilled prophecy.

The kind of prophecy the prophets of the bible prophesied. Like this prophecy delivered by Jesus, for example:

Matthew 24:1 (KJV) And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm

In stunning fulfillment, the indisputable historical record shows that less than 40 years after Jesus delivered that prophesy to his disciples, the Romans tore the temple down, and not a single stone was left upon another, EXACTLY as Jesus prophesied.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=70+ad+romans+destroyed+temple+%22every+stone%22&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

Another example is Daniel's kingdom "beasts" that were to unfold in perfect succession, in stunning fulfillment, over the hundreds of years in the prophet's future.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=11.0

Let alone all the Old Testament prophecy of Jesus, the Messiah, including the account of His crucifixion prophesied many hundreds of years in advance:

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Fulfilled precisely:

Mat 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

So what did Mohammed prophesy that was fulfilled?
Is there ANY proof whatsoever of Mohammed's prophethood?

Could our Muslim friends Please create a user ID and show us some fulfilled prophecy in the Quran?


Peter

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2009, 07:28:51 AM »
(Disappeared then restored from database)

I found an entertaining site regarding prophecy in the Quran. I think this guy is actually serious about his site.
http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html
Here are some of the more entertaining highlights:


FINGER PRINTS

Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing (41:21)

The finger prints system at borders, criminal investigation cells and immigration centres prove the fulfillment of this Quranic prophecy.

Even crediting the wildly preposterous leap from "skins" to modern fingerprinting techniques would this really constitute prophecy considering: "In ancient Babylon, fingerprints were used on clay tablets for business transactions. In ancient China, thumb prints were found on clay seals." http://onin.com/fp/fphistory.html
In other words, if someone tried to impersonate a seal, or conduct fraudulent business with the wrong print, over a thousand years before Mohammed was born, their print would have borne witness against them.


POLLUTION

"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42)

One of the interpretations of the above verse of the Holy Quran is the environmental pollution, caused by human being. And that is spread both in land and sea due to our own inventions, i.e., fumes from chimneys of factories, chemical and nuclear waste, huge traffic in the cities, noise and creation of ozone hole are manifest testimonies of the fulfillment of this prophecy.


Land and sea warfare were around from long before Mohammed.
Most importantly this "prophecy" is in the past tense. "Corruption has spread..." making it a historical account, not a prophecy.


GENETIC ENGINEERING

"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)

The holy Quran has prophesied the plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning in this short and concise sentence.

"...plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning..."
Then again moving a little dirt with a shovel also fulfills this prophecy. The leaps made here are really a good representation of all of the claims of Mohammed's "fulfilled prophecy".


ROADS IN MOUNTAINS

"And when the mountains are made to move." (81:4)

Centuries before the invention of dynamite, the holy Quran prophesied the blowing up and moving of the mountains.

Does dynamite really move mountains or do they remain in the very same place where they began? Are mountains "blown up" Doesn't dynamite simply alter, or change the face of a mountain, the same way a shovel would, only on a larger scale? Mohammed prophesied dynamite?

Why not say Mohammed prophesied the Gem of Egypt, the giant coal strip mining machine that gobbled up big pieces of hills within hours? "Hmmmm.... yeaaaaa .... like dat, like dat.... the Gem of Egypt ..... yea like dat! Mohammed prophesied the Gem of Egypt! Of course!!!!"


NEW TRANSPORT SYSTEMS

"And when the she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned." (81:5)

"And He has created horses and mules and asses that you may ride them, and as a source of beauty. And He will create what you do not yet know." (16:9)

As we know people, specially those living in deserts, have now abandoned camels and other animals for travelling. But this prophecy of invention and emergence of new transport systems is on-going as we witness new and faster modes of transportation emerging all the time.

Does the verse even say camels are abandoned? No. It says "...she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned."
Did the author never hear of the Arabian horse? Wasn't even Mohammed supposed to have ridden through the sky on such a beast in his fanciful night flight? How is the riding of horses supposed to be prophecy? What animals has God created since?


ZOO

"And when the wild beasts are gathered together." (81:6)

Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy.


"Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed..."? I have news for the author. Wild beasts of all sorts were captured and tamed long before Mohammed was born."... and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy"

Perhaps the author has never been to the zoo. The beasts in the zoo are not put together, but rather separated from each other by their own cages. Specifically unlike in the wild where they indeed are together and can eat each other.

Wild beasts are gathered together all over the Serengeti. Wild beasts tend to gather closer together in inclement weather. Dogs run in packs. Wildebeest are gathered together for their annual migration.
Herding is a natural instinct, but Mohammed prophesied zoos!


MODERN COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS

"And when various people are brought together." (81:8)

Fast transport systems, telephone, satellite systems and internet have brought so close to each other proving the truthfulness of the holy Quran.


One of the most preposterous leaps yet. Tribal and inter-clan meetings have taken place throughout the history of mankind. This one speaks for itself. Also smacks of author's exposure to telephone advertising.


WOMEN’S RIGHTS

"And when the female-infant buried alive is questioned about – For what crime was she killed." (81-9,10)

Modern-day women rights and liberation associations may be brain-child of freedom-loving and egalitarian humanist / feminist people but foretold by Quran centuries ago.


Where are female infants "buried alive" anywhere in the world? What would that have to do with women;s rights?
We do, however, have an example of an adult Muslim female who was buried alive in an "honor" killing.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1040.0


BOOKS PUBLISHED AND SPREAD

"And when books are spread abroad." (81:11)

The invention of printing press and publication houses and consequently spread of books every where is one of the marvellous prophecies of the Quran made in the dark ages of ignorance and illiteracy.


Copying and then carrying a book abroad fulfilled this prophecy long before Mohammed's day. Consider the stunning Library of Alexandria in ancient Greece. Bringing copies of books for the library was treated as a medium of exchange - of imported wealth - from visiting travelers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria

In fact, the Quran has rekindled the dark ages, with over 2 million slain at the hands of Islam in the Sudan alone, and over 13,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world just since 9-11: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/great_tribulation.htm


EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL LIFE

"And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever He pleases." (42:30)

Having discourse with aliens is still an unrealized dream, but science is progressing in that direction. The presence of extra-terrestrial life has been proved by scientists. The next step is to see them and making a link with them. No religious scripture, except Quran, even hints about this great scientific discovery.

"Having discourse with aliens is still an unrealized dream, but science is progressing in that direction."
Is it time for a big guffaw yet? Science is progressing in the direction of having discourse with aliens? What does it have to do with science? Don't you have to have the aliens first? Simple belief in ETs makes one a prophet? Or a kook?
"No religious scripture, except Quran, even hints about this great scientific discovery." What "discovery"? Who has discovered ETs? Are we to imagine that Mohammed was alone in nurturing this fantasy? The first in history to imagine beings from space? Isn't it the very kind of thing that could be suggested, and then the child-like mind of a desert dwelling illiterate might seize on, to entertain itself with?


AIR TRAFFIC SYSTEM

"And by the heaven full of tracks" (51:8)

While prophesying about modern transport systems, Quran also foretold the air-traffic system which is an essential part of aviation. A person living in desert 1400 years ago cannot talk about such advance technologies unless revealed to him by God Almighty.

Try tracks of a meteorite shower or comets. But look at the leap! Mohammed prophesied the air-traffic system!
I think perhaps Mohammed was prophesying the tracks of wild animals across the sky..... yea like dat!

There is one prophecy the author mentioned that is indeed a stunning fulfilled prophecy:


AIDS

"It never happens that permissiveness overwhelms a people to the extent that they display their acts of sex shamelessly and they are not uniquely punished by God. Among them, invariably, pestilence is made to spread and such other diseases, the like of which have never been witnessed by their forefathers." (Ibn-e-Majah, Kitab-ul-Fitan)* see footnote


Venereal disease is a new thing? It was likely well known around Mohammed and his men with all the wives and concubines and captured sex slaves from foreign places like Africa, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJhSejBDTPI
That it would become observably more prevalent and varied among them would not be a surprise.
Particularly with Mohammed's instruction regarding the prostituting your sex slaves.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=456.0


ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL

"And after him We said to the Children of Israel, Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)

Creation of Israel and gathering of Sephardic, Ashkenazi and the Jews of many other different races in Israel proves the authenticity of this prophecy and hence Quran.


Finally an actual prophecy with literal fulfillment of it! But was this a prophecy Mohammed's or simply more of his plagiarism? Let's start with Mohammed's x-"christian" friend Jabr whom the locals nicknamed "holy spirit" because Mohammed so often got a "revelation" right after meeting with Jabr. Their relationship even necessitated a special "revelation" to disclaim "inspiration" from Jabr, for damage control.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=452.0

And Mohammed's having access to his first wife's Christian sister, all of the Jews and Christians in his travels in business, or as a child with his uncle, or later on his Jewish secretary that was fluent in 3 languages, and Christian and x-Christian wives, concubine slaves, and Jewish wife (or concubine as the record is unclear of her ever having consented to marriage with Mohammed, whom also eventually poisoned him). Would it be a surprise then that Mohammed was exposed to just one of the prophesies of the restoration of the Jews to their land prophesied in the Word of God?

Sorry my Muslim friends. The restoration of the Jews to their land was prophesied a couple thousand years before Mohammed spoke of it. Page with verse links:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/parable_of_the_fig_tree.htm#jewish_restoration
"Old Testament verses that regard the restoration of the Jews to their land:

Leviticus 26:44-45 Here scripture tells us the restoration of Israel is unconditional.
Isaiah 11:11 Here again scripture talks about a second restoration of the Jews. What would be the point of this if they were not part of the elect.
Isaiah 26;20-27:1 Talks of hiding the children of Israel followed by Satan's complete judgment. There again why hide them if not to save the elect.
Isaiah 27:12-13 talks about the final regathering of Israel.
Jeremiah:30:4-8 talks about the time of Jacobs troubles and the future restoration.
Jeremiah 30:18-24 Tells us that a restoration for the tents of Jacob will take place in the latter days, I don't believe that this is the first restoration of 536 B.C.
Jeremiah 31:35-37 Talks about the permanent nation of Israel.
Jeremiah 33:24-26 Talks about the unconditional covenant with Jacob's descendants.
Ezekiel 16:60-63 Here again it's talking about an unconditional everlasting covenant with the Jews.
Ezekiel 37:1-28 Again it's talking about the unconditional future restoration of Israel followed closely by Armageddon in Ezekiel: 38-38.
Hosea 11:9-10 It talks about the future restoration of Israel from the West.
Joel 3:1-3 Predicts the restoration of Juda followed by Armageddon.
Amos 9:11 -15 Talks about an Israel restored to the land.
Zechariah 8:7-8 Speaks of a post-exilic unconditional restoration of the Jews to Jerusalem and the land.
Zechariah 10 & 12 Here again are more prophecies of the future restoration of the Jews.
Zechariah 14 Talks of Armageddon with the Jews in Jerusalem.

Now let's looks at what the New Testament has to say on this subject.

Luke 21:24 Speaks of a dispersion, the time of the Gentiles, and the restoration that follows.
Romans 11:11 Tells us that the Jews have not fallen.
Romans 11:17 Tells us that only some of the branches were broken off.
Romans 11:17 Tells us that the church (I believe to be the Christians) was grafted in among the Jews(olive tree).
Romans 11:28 Tells us that Gospel age Jews are still elect.
Romans 11:29 Tells us that Gods calling of the Jews is irrevocable (irrevocable means cannot be undone).
Revelation 7:4-9 Speaks of the 12 tribes of Israel in the Christian era.
Revelation 12:1-6 Again it speaks of Israel in the Christian era.
Revelation 15:3 Is a passage primarily about the Christian era, there are two songs, one for the Jews, and one for the Gentile church."

Besides those copy and pasted from another author's site is the stunning fulfillment of Daniel predicting the exact years of 1948 and 1967 - right to the year - and he did it 2500 years in advance:
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=77.0

Sorry my Muslim friends. You follow a "prophet" from whom not a single prophecy has ever been fulfilled.
A prophet whom not a single soul in history EVER WITNESSED the voice of Gabriel or Allah speak a word to.
You follow a false prohpet that was, and taught, the EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus Christ and all of the New Testament prophets and disciples.
The perfect manifestation of the spirit of antichrist as the most important fundamental of his STAND-ALONE 7th century religion.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=252.0

Rejecting even the record of the Old Testament prophets.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=148.0

Perhaps the author of the website cited here didn't get Mohammed's fulfilled prophesy. If you know of any actually fulfilled prophecy that can prove Mohammed, like those in the original post prove the Word of God, please share them with us.
Otherwise you cannot deny that you REJECT ALL of the bible's messengers to follow an empty shell, whose own personal abhorrent behavior is well detailed, in your own books.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=336.0
   

resistingrexmundi

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2009, 08:09:51 AM »
You know bro I found that site a while back when I myself tried to find fulfilled prophecy in the Quran. Me and my wife spent a while in wide-eyed horror and amusement at the blatant and willing ignorance of this person. He is a shining example of seeing what you want to see. I am glad you responded to these ridiculous claims.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2010, 11:13:44 AM »
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 11:18:22 AM by Peter »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 11:15:21 AM »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

punisher

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 03:31:45 AM »
@Peter

Quote
I found an entertaining site regarding prophecy in the Quran. I think this guy is actually serious about his site.
http://www.alislam.org/library/articles/prophecies.html
Here are some of the more entertaining highlights:

They are Qadiani, the traitor of Islam, and non - Muslim

and Follower of False Prophet Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. So don't waste ur time???

« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 03:37:26 AM by punisher »

punisher

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Re: The prophethood of Mohammed
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2010, 06:11:08 AM »
The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031

First of all this is ridiculous. Given the close proximity of fulfillment to prophecy such "predictions" are easy to make. Biblical prophecies give exact time frames and are given far enough in advance to eliminate the possiblility of informed guess work. Also the verse above is rendered incorrectly. It actually reads,

Ok brother can u Predict who will be superpower after America???

The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031
First of all this isn't a prophecy. This was Muhammad showing confidence that his plan of pillage, murder, rape, extortion, and all around dishonesty had worked to further his goals and that the this formula would continue to be effective. Also if 3:12 were true then why does the west still deny your faith. It has been 1400 years and while the apostasy of the Church has occured, JUST AS JESUS SAID IT WOULD, Islam is far from conquering the world. I would also add the Hitler promised victory over his enemies all throughout WW2 using the same tactics as Muhammad. And I am sure that had he dressed it up as a religion as Muhammad did he would have been even more successful.

Yes this is not a prophecy for disbeliever, but for those who believe


The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031

Such traditions exist in many religions, Judaism and Christianity being prime among them. Borrowed prophecies does not a prophet make.

Before I go any further you were asked to show from the koran any prophecies, which you failed to do, NOT the hadith. Since they were written far after the life of Muhammad.

Why such tradition exist in many religions because people had changed Islam to Christianity and Judaism and that's why Allah send his Final messenger for Guidance of Mankind???

The following 2 posts make reference to this post
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1481.msg6031#msg6031

Irrelevant as these things were recorded LOOOOOONNG after Muhammad's life and were likely made up since they do NOT exist in the koran.

You didn't able to find the answer on the whole net for that????

and all ur replies are useless no words of knowledge from them, but a hired knowledge???