Author Topic: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs  (Read 6741 times)

resistingrexmundi

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Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« on: August 12, 2009, 11:15:27 AM »
The purpose of the following post is to state many of the central beliefs of the JW's and how they contrast to what the bible states. I will create new additions to this post as I come across new findings. I hope to show many of the falsehoods that are propagated by these well intentioned people. I do not want to be misunderstood and have people thinking that I am attacking Jehovah Witnesses. Quite the contrary, in my love for their eternal souls, I hope to show the varying reasons they have to fear for their eternity. I could hope that God's mercy would shine on them Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.  But as a Christian it falls to me to earnestly contend the faith and so it is with abject humility that I do so here on the forum. I will begin to outline the JW's beliefs in the following days in the hope that maybe God's word will shine through to those earnestly seeking truth and bring them to a personal relationship with their saviour Jesus Christ.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2009, 08:46:18 AM »
One of the claims Jehovah Witnesses will sometimes bring to you in their attempt to convert you is "Hell is not a real place." In a previous posting I covered this topic breifly. I was not sure at the time whether this was a widely held belief or just something this particular group was putting forth. Now though I have discovered that this is indeed one of their beliefs. They first tell you that in the New Testament the word translated into hell actually meant grave. Well it may be true that the grave was part of process of the entrance into the afterlife make no mistake that Jesus believed in the existence of hell. The whole of Chapter 16 in Luke is devoted to the realities of hell. Now some have suggested that the Jewish idea of hell is different than that of Christians. It has been put forth that Sheol, world of the unseen, was not just hell. Rather heaven and hell are seen as one place and your distance from God in the afterlife is the determining factor on whether you are in heaven or hell. The parable in Luke 16 suggests that the two places are close enough that conversation might occur between the respective inhabitants. But their is also a fixed gulf that keeps the inhabitants of one from crossing to the other. In this we see that a clear distiction is made between inhabitants of heaven and hell. Let us also acknowledge that an eternity in a place far from God is the worst torment that can exist. Furthermore we find in Revelations that eventually when all is said and done that a new heaven and a new earth are formed and the evil that once existed is forever removed and cast away. So while hell may exist within a certain proximity of heaven it is seperated and will one day be cast away. The point in disproving this particular article of faith is to keep others from falling into the trap that atheists do. If no eternal judgement awaits then why bother with a higher sense of morality. Furthermore it is in direct opposition with the words of God. The idea that hell doesn't exist does nothing to foster faith. Instead it encourages the growth of immorality. I am not suggesting that I would abandon my walk with God if I suddenly discovered that hell didn't exist. But how many would be Christians have been led astray because they had been taught this foul doctrine? How many babes in Christ have fallen over this stumbling block?

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2009, 09:43:29 AM »
The parable in Luke 16 suggests that the two places are close enough that conversation might occur between the respective inhabitants.

From where do you draw this conclusion?

 Luke 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.

This is an illustration, or parable, Jesus is telling to illustrate a point. Certainly not the only illustration of the difficulties rich men have of finding the kingdom of God.

But their is also a fixed gulf that keeps the inhabitants of one from crossing to the other.

A great gulf fixed.
Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.

Is heaven a place where we will be able to look upon the suffering of the lost? I don't believe so.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/#heaven
Like Mohammed's heaven as I have hear Muslims preach?
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mohammeds_heaven.htm

The point being illustrated is we have His Word to guide us in how to avoid hell:

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

We have to seek out that truth and not depend on Abraham or anybody else tapping us on the shoulder and showing it to us.

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2009, 10:12:58 AM »
The parable does indeed illustrate the point that we need God's word to guide us and that it is the sincere hope of those who have fallen in this regard that others should succeed where they have fallen. However as with all of Jesus' parables while illustrating a point it does not indicate that these are actual occurences as well. Anytime we are led to believe that the story is strictly metaphorical we see words in the manner of "as", "like" etc. The point is Jesus viewed hell as a real place that existed in the here and now. Just because we can't see it does not mean it doesn't exist. The fact that a conversation occurred in the parable suggests that the inhabitants of heaven are aware of its existence as well as the suffering of it's inhabitants. In revelation the suffering of those in hell are held in full awareness of those in heaven. There will come a time however when even this is taken away. Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  The whole point of the argument was to make it abundantly clear that Jesus believed in the existence of hell. I could have used many other verses to illustrate the point but the parable in Luke did so much more definitively.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2009, 10:26:50 AM »
However as with all of Jesus' parables while illustrating a point it does not indicate that these are actual occurences as well.

I meant that it does not mean it isn't an actual occurence as well. I even used the word might in reference to the conversation to indicate that I didn't believe conclusively that this was an actual occurence. I simply stated it might have been. Jesus as God would have been in awarness of this occurence if this had happened and it has been God's method of refering to past occurences to teach later generations. The Bible is full of such lessons.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2009, 10:44:40 AM »
The whole point of the argument was to make it abundantly clear that Jesus believed in the existence of hell. I could have used many other verses to illustrate the point but the parable in Luke did so much more definitively.

God bless

I don't believe the central point is simply that there is a hell as there arre 54 verses in the KJV that use the term. http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=hell&t=KJV&sf=5
(As you mention the Jews understanding (the way I understand it) is complete separation from God.)

I believe the central point of this particular parable is again found in the conclusion:

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

It's up to each of us to avoid hell by hearing Moses and the prophets.
Just like Muslims sadly hear only one prophet and nullify ALL of the prophets and "messengers" of the bible to follow Mohammed.
They even fantasize about Moses prophesying Mohammed, in the place of Jesus.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=219.0
They don't ear Moses, and when they do, they are persuaded by Mohammed to reject his words to follow Mohammed.

For lurking Muslims benefit:

Jhn 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2009, 01:42:44 PM »
No no. You are misunderstanding me. I wasn't saying Jesus' central point was the existence of hell. I was saying the central point of my argument was that Jesus believed in hell. I know the point of the parable was to illustrate that God's word was a guide away from hell. I was simply stating that Jesus did believe in hell because he talked about it in such detail. I don't want anyone thinking that heaven is a place where we rejoice in the torment of others. But I do believe that the martyrs are fully aware of it. Whether or not that is the case does not matter here because I was just making the point that Jesus considered it a real place.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2009, 01:47:58 PM »
I apologize for not making myself more clear. Also my understanding of hell is the same as the Jews. That hell is complete seperation from God. If I ever post something that is so completely unclear please bring it to my attention. Sometimes I have to hurry when I post because of other commitments. But I consider my work with God paramount and so try to do what I can everyday. However sometimes in my zeal I do not fully explain myself. So again my apologies.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2009, 09:35:12 AM »
The next view I want to discuss is perhaps their most disturbing. As far as I have been able to ascertain they believe Jesus only to be created of God but not God incarnate. This shows a severe lack of understanding on their part. For we must worship God in spirit and truth. Likewise Jesus should be viewed spiritually. While it is true that the flesh of Jesus was created to serve a purpose it is the spirit of God and his determinate will that made Jesus who He is. Here are a list of posts that discuss this subject in more detail.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=211.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=566.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=546.0
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2009, 10:27:19 AM »
The next view I want to discuss is perhaps their most disturbing. As far as I have been able to ascertain they believe Jesus only to be created of God but not God incarnate. This shows a severe lack of understanding on their part. For we must worship God in spirit and truth. Likewise Jesus should be viewed spiritually. While it is true that the flesh of Jesus was created to serve a purpose it is the spirit of God and his determinate will that made Jesus who He is. Here are a list of posts that discuss this subject in more detail.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=211.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=566.0
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=546.0

It is also my understanding that they believe Jesus is a created being. That is not supported by scripture:

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

No question about the identity of the person in the above verse:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

In Old Testament prophecy many hundreds of years before Jesus was manifest, or revealed, to us:

Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look [and] stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2009, 11:17:00 AM »
It is also my understanding that they believe Jesus is a created being. That is not supported by scripture:

Indeed it isn't. Which is why I felt it necessary to give an itemized refutation of the fallacy of their doctrine. So that they may be led to truth. But it is in complete and sincere love that I do this. For God chastens those whom He loves and likewise Jesus told us to love one another as He loves us. So it is our duty to stand up for truth and in a loving spirit guide those who are misled away from foul doctrine.

God bless
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2009, 12:03:19 PM »
(Disappeared then restored from database)

Heaven is hope only for select Jehovah's Witnesses. The majority of JWs hope to live on "paradise earth"

Here is another belief of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Is this supported scripturally? The bible does indicate a new heaven and a new earth shall exist. But does it indicate that heaven is only for a select group of believers and not all of them?

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This says a new heaven and new earth will exist but does it say "And certain of those believers were gathered to heaven while the remnant remained on earth. NO. So where does this view come from? If anyone can tell me I would like to see the support. John the revelator made it abundantly clear that all are comforted by God equally. At this point sin is passed away and no longer finds a place in heaven or earth. And God, being holy, will not have any place where He is not welcome and no sin can seperate His creation from His prescence.
   
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 05:50:34 AM by PeteWaldo »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2009, 01:04:49 PM »
Here is a powerful testimony from a former JW on the callousness of the Watchtower, their unforgiving nature, and their attempt to usurp authority from God. I will provide the link here. http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/test.html

I strongly recommend anyone thinking of joining the JW's or JW's who are battling their way out of that doctrine to read this story.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 05:51:09 AM by PeteWaldo »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

resistingrexmundi

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2009, 01:19:02 PM »
(Disappeared then recovered from database)

I have just been made aware of a prophecy the JW's made in regards to the end times. According to them the end of the world was to occur in 1975.

Mat 24:11  And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Deu 18:21  And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22  When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Hmmm....what conclusion then are we to draw from their prophecy?
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/seventy5.html check it out for yourselves.

God bless
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 05:43:54 AM by PeteWaldo »
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

Peter

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2009, 02:45:08 PM »
(Disappeared then recovered from database)

I have just been made aware of a prophecy the JW's made in regards to the end times. According to them the end of the world was to occur in 1975.

Mat 24:11 ;And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Hmmm....what conclusion then are we to draw from their prophecy?
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2919/seventy5.html check it out for yourselves.

God bless

I did hear about some kind of doctrinal disaster that required a lot of futile damage control but didn't take enough interest in it to investigate. Would be nice if a former JW logged in to inform on this group.
   

David H

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2014, 05:28:15 AM »
Yes they are very cruel group who protect evil paedophiles and others who hide in their flocks.  They also call us 'Apostates' and brand us as 'Mentally Diseased', because we accepted Yeshua as our Saviour and teach that he is the ONLY Way the TRUTH and the life.

Look at www.silentlambs.org and see how they have treated victims and how they are losing many court cases.

PeteWaldo

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2014, 05:54:35 AM »
I noticed a few of the posts in this thread had disappeared (we don't seem to have that problem any more). I was able to restore them from the database. If you spot any others in our older threads please let me know and I can usually restore them.

Patricio81

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Re: Jehovah Witness' Beliefs
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2017, 02:57:53 PM »
One of the most unique doctrines the Jehovah’s Witnesses teach is that Christ, both before he came to Earth and since he has returned to heaven, was and is Michael the Archangel. To argue this, the Witnesses use 1 Thessalonians 4:16: "the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet." (Unless otherwise noted, all quotations are from the New World Translation [NWT] of the Bible, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the parent organization for the Jehovah’s Witnesses.) From this verse the Witnesses conclude that the Lord Jesus Christ is an archangel because he has "an archangel’s voice." No other denomination has ever come up with such a conclusion, because every other denomination has concluded that the return of the Lord will simply be heralded by an archangel.