Author Topic: Islam's oral tradition transmitted through pagan's that venerated 360 idols?  (Read 728 times)

PeteWaldo

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Narrated Abdullah: When the Prophet entered Mecca on the day of the Conquest, there were 360 idols around the Ka'ba. The Prophet started striking them with a stick he had in his hand and was saying, "Truth has come and Falsehood will neither start nor will it reappear.  Bukhari Book #59, Hadith #583

What kind of oral tradition can we suppose would be received and transmitted by a bunch of illiterate 7th century pagans, that were isolated from the the civilized world by living in the SW Arabian desert, who were still venerating 360 idols even 6 centuries into the Christian era?
It would of course be the traditions they followed while venerating 360 pagan idols in - as the actual history and archaeology detail - pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship, one idol of which Muhammad's followers still venerate to this very day.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1050.0



Since there was no record other than oral for those illiterate pagan's to receive, they would have orally transmitted the pagan traditions that they practiced, and so they obviously couldn't have had a clue about Adam or Abraham or any of the rest of Islamic so-called "tradition" regarding any pre-4th century history of Mecca, much less have any idea what went on thousands of years before them.

Yet since Muhammad's followers realize that leaves only men - who created Islamic tradition from thin air and put it to the pen in the 7th-10th centuries AD, without reference to any actual historical record that preceded the 5th century AD - as its original authors, rather than face the truth, many of Muhammad's followers will actually insist that somehow those 360 idol-venerating pagan's accurately received and transmitted 4500 years of pre-Muhammad history of Mecca and the Kaaba, that is supposed to be detailing history from Adam right up until about the year that Muhammad was born (when the historical record of Mecca (such as it is) actually began to be recorded (which itself is chock full of fables and fantasy regarding even the then-recent centuries)).

For example the follower of Muhammad at the forum link below, desperately tries to equate his claim of oral transmission of Islamic so-called "tradition" to the periods of oral transmission of Jews and Christians, prior to when the records were written.
So what's the problem with that?
The most obvious problem is of course, that Jewish and Christian traditions that were transmitted orally and then written down, have been the same traditions throughout our history. While Islamic tradition, regarding Adam, Abraham and Ishmael having had something to do with Mecca or the Kaaba, were supposed to have somehow been accurately received and transmitted, through a bunch of illiterate naked pagans that worshiped 360 idols!
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=4979.msg19128#msg19128

But it gets even worse. Here is what Muhammad's followers are taught about Adam:

Narrated Abu Huraira:  Allah's Apostle said, "The first group of people who will enter Paradise, will be glittering like the full moon and those who will follow them, will glitter like the most brilliant star in the sky. They will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Their combs will be of gold, and their sweat will smell like musk. The aloes-wood will be used in their centers. Their wives will be houris. All of them will look alike and will resemble their father Adam (in statute), sixty cubits tall." Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 544)
http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=sixty+cubits&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all

Which of course requires them to believe one of two things:
1. Muhammad's followers must believe that human beings either shrank from 90 feet to 6 feet tall over the span of 4500 years between Adam and Muhammad.
2. Or that Islamic so-called "tradition" was transmitted orally over a period of millions of years (as some Muslims attempt to excuse away the change in height), through a bunch of Arabian pagans that by the year Muhammad was born were venerating 360 idols at their Kaaba in Mecca!


Alternatively Muhammad's followers can believe the truth as revealed through the actual historical and archaeological record of Mecca, which is that Mecca did not exist until pagan migrants from Yemen initially settled the area in around the 4th century AD, and built their Kaaba in the late 5th century AD for pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship.
http://www.brotherpete.com/hajj___umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1133.0
http://www.historyofmecca.com/
http://www.religionresearchinstitute.org/

Alternatively Muhammad's followers can believe in the truth of the geographically perfectly plausible, 1600 year historical record of Yahweh to mankind as revealed through all of His prophets and witnesses, that is ever increasingly demonstrated to be an accurate record of ancient history through ever more discovery of historical and archaeological evidence.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?board=68.0

Here's the best part. Once those so sorely deluded folks believe the truth they can pray to God any time they want and won't have to be enslaved to "praying in the vain repetitions of the heathen" five times a day, or squandering their hard earned money to travel to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca Saudi Arabia and march around it 7 times as the Arabian pagans did long before Muhammad was born, in pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals, much less venerate their black stone idol by kissing it as Muhammad did which as far as I understand even the Arabian pagan's didn't go as far a doing in their veneration of that black stone idol.
http://www.brotherpete.com/children_flesh.htm