Author Topic: "...that man of sin..."  (Read 2376 times)

Peter

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"...that man of sin..."
« on: May 19, 2009, 03:23:45 PM »
For a free printable tract of this subject, with folding instructions, please click on this link. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/free_bible_tracts.htm#tract_c2
To go directly to the PDF click here. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/c2.pdf
For a printable PDF of "The Rebuilt Temple" with folding instructions click here. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/free_bible_tracts.htm#tract_c5
To go directly to the PDF click here. http://www.beholdthebeast.com/c5.pdf
Abomination of Desolation http://www.beholdthebeast.com/abomination_of_desolation.htm
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/c15.pdf

John 2:19  Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?  21  But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

So who is "that man of sin"?  "The" 'Antichrist"?  Nero?  Mohammed?
 
2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition  

"and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (link to this spot)

It would seem that "that man of sin" and "the son of perdition" are interchangeable, but who are they?  The above verse is the only verse in Scripture that discusses that "man of sin".  We will consider the only other verse that uses the term "son of perdition" later.
 
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

"so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God"

Can we get to know that "man of sin", the "son of perdition", better by finding out more about where he "sitteth" - that is - in the temple of God?  Let's try the KJV search tool from the Blue Letter Bible to see what we can find out.  Following are all of the verses that include the term "temple of God":

Matthew 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

This first verse is a reference to the literal temple that Jesus prophesied would be torn down - every stone - as it indeed was.

Matthew 26:61  And said, This [fellow] said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.

The temple of God referenced in the verse above is Jesus' body.  John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

The building again in three days is further confirmed by the following:  

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

So we learn that the bodies of regenerate believers are the temple of God. The above three verses are not open to interpretation.  Scripture offers no other option than our bodies as the location of the temple of God, through Christ's death and resurrection.  Nowhere does the Lord redefine the term.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In our target verse above it would seem we are left with no choice but to understand that the "man of sin" may be revealed in the body of a regenerate believer.  

The figurative language in the following two verses from John's vision in Revelation are sometimes interpreted to suggest otherwise, but to do so would nullify the truth of the verses that clearly peg the location of the "temple of God" that are not open to interpretation.  This would suggest that Jesus' perfect and finished work on the Cross was incomplete.

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

Consider an interpretation for Revelation 11:1-2, consistent within the traditional continuous-historic framework of prophecy on this link.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

We can see that the final use of this term - in Revelation 11:19 - locates the temple of God of that verse in the heavenlies which, would be consistent with Ezekiel's account.

That's it.  The above are all the verses that use the term "temple of God".  

Some claim that Ezekiel's book calls for a future rebuilt temple apparently because of the extent of detail.  But within the context of that description we find:  Ezekiel 43:7  And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, [neither] they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
Are we really to expect God to live in an earthly temple, built by the hands of men, for ever?

We have assurance that He will not, in the New Testament:  Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Hebrews 8:1  Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

How could any man "desolate" any future rebuilt temple, that would necessarily already be desolate by God's own design?

As unimaginable as it may seem, some that readily recognize a new covenant and that the old waxeth away, and know where the temple of God is, are actually clamoring for a rebuilt temple where Jews would resume animal sacrifice.  This would be a restoration of the Old Covenant and an affront to Jesus Christ and His perfect blood atonement for our sins (the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world).  It would also fly in the face of a boatload of scripture.  Here are a few examples:        
                      
Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Mark 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love [his] neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

Matthew and Mark tell us to look to Daniel the prophet for help in understanding of the abomination that maketh desolate - not to Paul.  We  learn from Matthew and Mark that we should expect it to "stand in the holy place" not "sitteth". We learn from Luke that it is Jerusalem that is desolated.

To believe that the temple of God resides anywhere other than in the bodies of regenerate believers is a product of doctrine (Held by a minority of the church - primarily over the last century.).  Jesus warned the Pharisees of such:
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

But how can the "man of sin" sitteth in a regenerate individual?

Well we all know that there are none righteous and we are all sinners. So we know that Satan can have influence in Christian's lives.  Even though we are guided to know what's right, sometimes temptation is irristable.  We are not likely to find Satan at an atheist convention or in Hollywood since he already has them in his back pocket.  So shouldn't we be on the lookout for Satan to be hanging around the Church, doing everything he can, to cart off Jesus' potential goods?  Satan is the author of unsound doctrine.  The "overcommeth"ing in the second and third chapters of Revelation is about overcoming unsound doctrine, not Satan - except as he is the author of it.

Good video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3cLChnG_mE
Rest of the videos on his channel here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/JesusCTK
               
Tod Bentley
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9Ay4QAtW8   

Peter

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Re: "...that man of sin..."
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 03:26:07 PM »
Satan is a pipsqueak. He can have no power over us if we audibly renounce him in the name of Jesus Christ.  But if we underestimate his power, as feeble as it is over born again believers, we might find ourselves in hot water.  Let's explore just how.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

1) When pondering the verses above, consider a Christian that proudly declares he is a "self-made man". While this may be a little simplistic, and perhaps seem somewhat unfair, consider how it measures up to scripture.

"...exalteth himself above all that is called God..."

Remember what we discovered about letting doctrine trump the truth of God's Word:

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  2  The same was in the beginning with God.

2) What about when we are driven by our egos? We know what God wants:
Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Yet sometimes we march off in lockstep with Satan, putting him at the helm, knowing full well what is right. Perhaps even pointing our fingers in judgment of other persons (shewing) to boot.
 
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God"

3) Consider the slim majority of nicolaitan bishops in the Episcopal Church (ECUSA) "House of Bishops", that ordained a homosexual priest as bishop, who had divorced his wife, abandoned the home of his wife and two minor daughters, and was shacked up with his boyfriend when ordained, in spite of the requirements for Bishop clearly detailed in scripture.

Professing themselves to be wise enough to know better than God's Holy Word, they went exactly contrary to it regarding the qualifications for bishop, in respect to the individual they ordained.  Did they exhault themselves above all that is called God?
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Were they acting as GOD? Taking God's place by reinterpreting God's Holy Word to conform to this world?

For those who aren't familiar with God's requirements for Bishop they can be found directly on this link to the BLB.
It should have been no surprise then that just as the bishop related scriptures indicate, it would seem he was prone to the "snare of the devil", as he checked himself in to an alcohol rehab center just a couple of years later.

While the church has been dead in Europe for much longer, the falling away, or apostasy of the Church, has been going on double time in the U.S. since 1948 and entry into Daniel's "time of the end", punctuated by the founding of the World Council of Churches in 1948, with stated socialist goals, is perhaps best known for spending Church funds to prop up tin-horn dictators and leaders of communist countries that oppress their people.  Also marking the U.S. entry into the "time of the end" was the Everson decision in 1947 with the so-called "separation of Church and State" (had only been brought before the courts on two other occasions in the prior 150 years), followed by the McCollum decision in 1948, which ended religious instruction in schools. It is more difficult to see the falling away, or apostasy, if we believe that the man of sin is some indistinct individual feature of the future, as a result of our failure to understand where the "man of sin" sitteth.

4) Some Christians don't hesitate to proclaim God's judgment on those of our devout Jewish Brethren, from whose eyes the Lord has not yet lifted the "spirit of slumber" (and for some will not lift it until the fullness of the nations comes in), and as a result don't yet recognize Jesus as their Messiah.

You will find no shortage in the Church that will state flat out that Jews are headed to perdition if they don't recognize Jesus is their Messiah.  In my parents generation this would have been unthinkable. At worst they would have chalked it up as the mystery that it is, since they knew that the Jews were God's chosen people, and He had an everlasting covenant with them. But as the Church moved deeper into the falling away, beginning about mid-20th century, things changed.

Consider again the Christian doing the judging of our devout Jewish Brethren:

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Has the Christian that proclaimed judgment on our Jewish Brethren "opposeth" by going directly against what we learn from God's Holy Word?

Did he "exalteth himself above all that is called God"?  John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And by so doing "shewing" himself that he is God?
Scroll down for Strong's on "shewing" ("to point away from oneself").

"himself that he is God"?  Does he take God's place by standing in judgment as God?

Has that regenerate Christian allowed Satan, aka that man of sin, aka the son of perdition (only other reference in scripture to son of perdition is Judas), to sitteth in his temple of God?  Does it even occur to the 20th century Church to take an introspective look for the man of sin, or is it too distracted by picking up a torch and pitchfork and chasing after some future silver screen boogeyman?

5) What about a Christian husband that may misunderstand his "authority" over his wife.  If his wife is regenerate and walking in her own lead of the Holy Spirit, and he makes demands that she stop attending a particular church, or go to a church of his choosing, or not attend at all, is his will then preempting the lead of the Holy Spirit in her life?  Wouldn't his exercising his will, over her Holy Spirit lead, presume that his understanding is necessarily correct?  What if he's wrong?  How can there be so many denominations if everyone is correct in detail?  The following verse qualifies itself:  
Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.  

Isn't it about how best to love our wives by allowing the Holy Spirit to lead them down their own path?  If allowed, might the Holy Spirit merge those paths eventually?
If a husband sees only the first part, his relationship with his wife risks being like that prescribed by the Koran: (Sura 2:223) your wives are as tilth (farmland) unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will.

6)  What about within the corporate body of Christ? Here is Todd Bentley's way out of order "healing" ministry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9Ay4QAtW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCcGaTRwG_4
Before he removed it from his website he claimed visitations by a 9' tall angel named Emma.
2Cr 11:14      And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Prior to his show he would lay on the stage and vibrate for a considerably long time.
He wound up with an adulterous relationship with a staff member and abandoned that "ministry".
Was it in order? No. We're supposed to go to our elders for laying on of hands. Likely the reason for the plural is so that no one man is tempted to take credit for the healing.

Here is a very direct manifestation of this section of 2 Thessalonians.  Speaking in tongues is a gift of the spirit. Some Churches understand this as a blessing, and with all appropriate gravity.  In the summer of 2007 I visited a church that declares that speaking in tongues is the proof that a person is saved, an experience described on this link.

Some Churches view speaking in tongues more casually, but this is serious business.
THE BIBLE WOULD SEEM SPECIFIC ABOUT THIS.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

If we don't test or "try the spirits" we are inviting Satan right into our congregation, and encouraging him to remain seated in that individual's temple of God, if the tongues are coming from unclean spirits.
Ask the spirit - not the person - to confess that Jesus Christ the Son of God IS come in the flesh.  An atheist, Muslim, or evil spirit, can readily agree that Jesus Christ did, has, or was, come in the flesh, simply because it is a widely recognized historical fact.

(Note: When tongues are to be tested in a born again individual, it is the spirit that has to be tested, not the person.)

Not uncommonly these spirits, that sitteth in the temple of God - the regenerate Christian - and right there in the congregation, are found to be unclean spirits. When unclean spirits are tried, and the spirit is thus found out, the person that had been speaking that tongue may fall to the floor in fetal position, with spastic convulsions, hands curled up, etc. Could this be explained here?:  
1Timothy 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

There are some excellent sources to help us understand this spirit filled world in which we live. Read "Bondage Breaker" by Neil Anderson. This book is written by a Christian counselor regarding his years of experience with how evil spirits can haunt regenerate Christians lives, often unrecognized by the individual, and causing painful, misunderstood grief, in that person for years.

We also learn that many persons that house, and were well familiar with these spirits, thought they were of God and the Holy Spirit, when they were unclean or demonic. THIS IS WHY IT MAY BE MOST IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND WHO THE MAN OF SIN IS.  These unclean spirits may enter as a result of severe abuse at an early age (MPD), by inadvertent invitation, and sometimes by ancestral assignment, if there were spiritualists or Satanists in the last few family generations.

7) Regenerate believers with multiple personality disorder sometimes have a host of spirits, some unclean, and some demonic, while others operate in the capacity of guardians, or protectors, doing their best to maintain order within the community of alternates. In the vast majority of cases these folks were physically or sexually abused at extremely early ages and created an alternate reality as their only means of escape.  As many as 1 in 100 of us may suffer from MPD. The only clue for self-diagnosis by the sufferer is to notice that they miss large blocks of time.

"Shining Man With Hurt Hands", by Ellis Skolfield is about his online ministry that helped many poor sufferers with MPD, recover their monominds, through the power of the Holy Spirit.  Mr Skolfield spent over 8000 hours in online chat with MPDs toward that effort. He worked with one sufferer that had as many as 350 alternate personalities. This book moved me more deeply than any book I have ever read. It will offer you a view straight into the spirit world. It is available FREE in PDF directly at this link: http://www.fish-house.com/pdf/ShiningMan.pdf

Are some folks so doctrinally preoccupied with picking up a pitchfork in one hand and a torch in the other, running to and fro, looking for some future "man of sin", some - someday - "son of perdition", that they perhaps can't see him, right before them?
 
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

"shewing himself that he is God." (link to this spot)

Strong's: http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
shewing
New Testament Greek Definition:
584 apodeiknumi {ap-od-ike'-noo-mee}
from 575 and 1166;; v
AV - approve 1, prove 1, set forth 1, show 1; 4
1) to point away from one's self, to point out, show forth, to
expose to view, exhibit
2) to declare, to show, to prove what kind of person anyone is,
to prove by arguments, demonstrate

When Christians make judgments in regard to other persons, particularly when judging the condition of another's heart, like Christians that tend to be "wise in their conceits" regarding our Jewish brethren for example, have we then assumed the role of God, since we cannot know God's judgments? When we judge others don't we exalt ourselves above God by so doing?  Have we then seated the man of sin?

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Peter

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Re: "...that man of sin..."
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2011, 09:09:37 AM »
Thought this was worth copy and pasting from the "where is the temple of God thread".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hUhY5eSSuI

Exalting yourself above the Word & standing as God in judgment - an excellent example.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
To my brethren, please note that the corporate body of Christ is the "temple of God" in the Christian era.
watch?v=nMXGmHiNUyU
The futurist "church" is looking in the wrong place for "that man of sin"
watch?v=QR0d1B4FYiM
___________________________

However the comment is "pending approval". This is the first of his videos that I have run into that is pending approval. Unless he has changed them all to that because of serious questions to his doctrine, it is likely because of the shock folks express after seeing the video.
Let's see if he censors my comment and adds nicolaitanism as well!

[addition 3-14] His Greek Orthodox styled icon of himself on his website should be no surprise.
http://www.wiawo.com/WIAWO/Oracles.html