On yet another dissimulator's website, I found one of his heroes listed was Gary Miller, whom I had never heard of. So a little search produced his site "Islam for Christians":http://www.islamforchristians.com/gary-miller-man-challenged-quran/
The website invited me to a live chat session, with a flashing "CHAT ONLINE" button, through which I very much appreciated the opportunity to engage. The chat went:
Please wait for a site adviser to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Fahad'
Fahad: Hello. Welcome to our live chat.
Fahad: How can I assist you today?
you: Hi Fahad, my name is John
you: I wonder if you could direct me to a body of historical and archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD. That is the kind of historical and archaeological evidence we have for other ancient Arabian towns.
Fahad: i do not know about any particular archaelogical study regarding it.
you: How about historical?
Fahad: perhaps there is some study regarding it, which i am not familiar with it
you: You seem to be confirming, what is hard to deny as fact, that Mecca did not exist prior to the 4th century AD.
Fahad: historical information is there in many of the books of history
Fahad: no, i said i do not know about the archealogical findings
Fahad: books of history are there
Fahad: infact, let me ask you
Fahad: are you a christian?
you: I am referring to actual historical record of Mecca, outside of Islamic "tradition" that was all put to the pen in the 8th to 10th centuries AD, so many centuries after the fact.
you: Yes I am a Christian
Fahad: in that case
Fahad: Quran gives another name of Makkah, which is bakkah
Fahad: and this bakkah is mentioned in the bible as a place of pilgrimage and spring (water)
you: I am familiar with Ahmed Deedat's dissimulation to which you are beginning to allude. But have you actually ever read the passage for yourself?
Fahad: Psalms 84
Fahad: How lovely is Your dwelling-place, O Lord of Hosts. I long, I yearn for the courts of the Lord; my body and soul shout for joy to the living God ... Happy are those who dwell in Your house; they forever praise You. Happy is the man who finds refuge in You, whose mind is on the [pilgrim] highways. They pass through the Valley of Baca, regarding it as a place of springs, as if the early rain had covered it with blessing ... Better one day in Your courts than a thousand [anywhere else]; I would rather stand at the threshold of God's house than dwell in the tents of the wicked
Fahad: this is exactly what islam says about Makkah
Fahad: and also calls it Bakkah in the Quran
you: Didn't you ever wonder what is in the places that you substituted with the .......s?
Fahad: it is very clear isnt it?
Fahad: yet you would not accept this stark reality
Fahad: how close can this linkage be?
Fahad: not more than this
Fahad: so shoudnt you accept this clear linkage between what prophet Muhammad brought and what other prophets brought
you: The "stark reality" would seem to be how you were deceived, my friend: 84:7 They go from strength to strength, [every one of them] IN ZION appeareth before God.
Fahad: it is the light from the same candle
Fahad: you are presenting it word for word as if your bible is preserved word for word
Fahad: which is not the case
Fahad: and you know that
you: "IN ZION", a pilgrimmage to THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs where YHWH had His people built a temple to Him, the temple mount of which still stands today.
Fahad: thats what you believe
Fahad: we believe this was always the house of God
Fahad: and thats what it mentions
Fahad: the house of lord
Fahad: as described in the Quran
Fahad: by the name of "baitullah
you: My friend, it isn't about what I believe but what the very verse that you chose to quote SAYS. IN ZION.
Fahad: however, you would not accept the Quran which is preseved
Fahad: and take the bible which has versions and versions and things that you are not even sure of
Fahad: how can i help you with this
Fahad: if you fail to accept
Fahad: so dont waste my time
Fahad: Thank you for giving us this opportunity to assist you.
Fahad: Have a nice day.
Chat session has ended. Thank you for giving us this opportunity to assist you.
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I didn't even get a chance to post my last comment which was:
Tell me, does it make sense to you that the Old Testament saints would turn their backs on their temple that YHWH had them build in Jerusalem, to wander 1400 kilometers off into the Arabian desert?