Author Topic: 7th and 8th Century Islamic Created Fiction  (Read 22456 times)

Mujaheed

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Re: Love Your Neighbor
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2010, 06:49:02 AM »
YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF OF MAKKAH FROM MAKKAH

You mean that YOU "DO NOT HAVE PROOF OF MAKKAH FROM MAKKAH". Because it does not exist.  You mean that no scholar before was EVER ABLE TO SUPPORT Mohammed and his boys 7th and 8th century created fiction. If it was supportable the internet would be full of such support. Just like it's full of Ahmed Deedat's lies.

This id futile argument created by you in an attempt to belittle the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, this is not question ever raised in the time of the prophet nor objected to in the last 1000 years by any Christian Scholar. I believe that Nabi EESA is the messiah based on the Quran and the Hadith and not because of the unknown authors of the NT despite the complete lack of historical evidence. I believe what MuHammad (Messenger of ALLAH) is the source of PROPHETIC truth based on my belief that he is a Prophet sent by ALLAH (THE LORD OF ALL THE PROPHETS THAT CAME BEFORE) to correct the incorrect beliefs of mankind.

IN OTHER WORDS THE REQUEST FOR EVIDENCE IS DENIED, NOT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST BUT IT IS IRRELEVANT and ARGUMENT BASED ON CONJECTURE>

SEEKING EVIDENCE FOR THE LIGHT OF ALL SCRIPTURE IS ABSURD JUST AS SHOWING ME GOD IS. IT DEFIES THE VERY ESSENCE OF BELIEF>

IMAGINE TRYING TO FIND EVIDENCE FOR ALL THE SCRIPTURE!!!!, MADNESS IT S BASED ON BELIEF, not the twisted logic of unknown authors.

Peter

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Re: Love Your Neighbor
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2010, 07:08:32 AM »
YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF OF MAKKAH FROM MAKKAH

You mean that YOU "DO NOT HAVE PROOF OF MAKKAH FROM MAKKAH". Because it does not exist.  You mean that no scholar before was EVER ABLE TO SUPPORT Mohammed and his boys 7th and 8th century created fiction. If it was supportable the internet would be full of such support. Just like it's full of Ahmed Deedat's lies.

This id futile argument created by you in an attempt to belittle the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad, ......

Not at all. It's an attempt to show you that Mohammed is a false prophet - indeed THE false prophet - and his 7th century religion is a lie. The EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=2031.0

....... this is not question ever raised in the time of the prophet .......

Why would Mohammed's followers ask questions, when you could follow Mohammed and rape and sexually enslave the wives and children of the vanquished and steal their stuff? Why look a gift horse in the mouth?
Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."
Ishaq:465 "When their wrists were bound with cords, the Apostle was a sea of generosity to us."

Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2010, 07:18:46 AM »
....... nor objected to in the last 1000 years by any Christian Scholar.

Even if you could substantiate this claim, of what relevance would it be in this 21st century information age? Where is all the online info of a history of Mecca before that history was created in the 7th and 8th centuries? Where are the Mohammedan answers to this challenge?
This even as other tiny Arabian settlements are well attested in the historical and archaeological record.

I believe that Nabi EESA is the messiah based on the Quran and the Hadith ........

That's right. You believe Mohammed and his alter ego "Allah", in place of YHWH and His 1600 year record.

........ and not because of the unknown authors of the NT despite the complete lack of historical evidence. I believe what MuHammad (Messenger of ALLAH) is the source of PROPHETIC truth based on my belief that he is a Prophet sent by ALLAH (THE LORD OF ALL THE PROPHETS THAT CAME BEFORE) to correct the incorrect beliefs of mankind.

IN OTHER WORDS THE REQUEST FOR EVIDENCE IS DENIED, .......

Then DO NOT put verses of Mohammed in any threads in this forum, as though they have any standing against the 1600 year record of God to mankind.

Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2010, 07:21:54 AM »
....... NOT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST ........

But if this were true then you could simply provide some links to it.

........... BUT IT IS IRRELEVANT and ARGUMENT BASED ON CONJECTURE>

You keep getting this backwards. Conjecture is the thousands of years of Mohammedan history that was all created in the 7th and 8th century. Indeed it is necessarily fiction.
The Scriptures are well attested (even confirmed through the Dead Sea scrolls) textually, historically, archaeologically and geographically.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=97.0
Mohammed's 7th century religion fails epically on all of those counts.

 

SEEKING EVIDENCE FOR THE LIGHT OF ALL SCRIPTURE IS ABSURD JUST AS SHOWING ME GOD IS. IT DEFIES THE VERY ESSENCE OF BELIEF>

IMAGINE TRYING TO FIND EVIDENCE FOR ALL THE SCRIPTURE!!!!, MADNESS IT S BASED ON BELIEF, not the twisted logic of unknown authors.

It must be awful being in a position of having to try to believe in something, even as you have to rail against it and blaspheme it, because it's a requirement of following Mohammed.

Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2010, 07:27:21 AM »
Please answer in order as requested in the terms of your return to the forum.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8551#msg8551

Mujaheed

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2010, 07:30:55 AM »
....... NOT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT EXIST ........

But if this were true then you could simply provide some links to it.

........... BUT IT IS IRRELEVANT and ARGUMENT BASED ON CONJECTURE>

You keep getting this backwards. Conjecture is the thousands of years of Mohammedan history that was all created in the 7th and 8th century. Indeed it is necessarily fiction.
The Scriptures are well attested (even confirmed through the Dead Sea scrolls) textually, historically, archaeologically and geographically.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=97.0
Mohammed's 7th century religion fails epically on all of those counts.

 

SEEKING EVIDENCE FOR THE LIGHT OF ALL SCRIPTURE IS ABSURD JUST AS SHOWING ME GOD IS. IT DEFIES THE VERY ESSENCE OF BELIEF>

IMAGINE TRYING TO FIND EVIDENCE FOR ALL THE SCRIPTURE!!!!, MADNESS IT S BASED ON BELIEF, not the twisted logic of unknown authors.

It must be awful being in a position of having to try to believe in something, even as you have to rail against it and blaspheme it, because it's a requirement of following Mohammed.


DEAR PETER, WHEN YOU BASE YOUR ARGUMENTS ON ABSURD NOTIONS THE WORDS WILL FLOW FROM YOU LIKE THE MUSIC OF SATAN< I DONT HAVE THE ANSWERS TO THE ABSURD QUESTIONS< BUT IT IS IRRELAVENT TO BELIEF IN THE QURAN AND THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD> I WOULD BELIEVE YOU AND RAFAT AMARI BUT YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN ANYTHING, YOU MAKE ABSURD CLAIMS BASED ON CONJECTURE IN THE RUDEST POSSIBLE TERMS AND LANGUAGE>

THIS MAKE YOU LOOK LIKE VILE HUMAN BEINGS TO ME, THE MORE I READ YOUR POSTS THE MORE I REALISE JUST HOW UNGODLY YOU ARE. YOU SOUND NOTHING LIKE JESUS YOU CLAIM TO FOLLOW!!!!

YOU DONT DISCUSS JESUS, JUST CONJECTURE, VERY VERY SAD

MAKKAH IS NOT A TOPIC FOR DISCUSSION WHEN YOU DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND THE BASICS OF ISLAM.

Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2010, 07:32:19 AM »
Please answer in order as requested in the terms of your return to the forum. You have several more unsubstantiated claims to support. Please start with your first claim in that post.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8514#msg8514

MAKKAH IS THE HOLIEST CITY ON THE PLANET.

THE "Holy Land" is unarguably the historical and geographical epicenter of YHWH's temple, prophets and witnesses.
Holy Land
Temple

Mecca is the epicenter solely of Mohammedanism and it's lone "prophet" Mohammed. Your empty claim is made by those indoctrinated to follow Mohammed's 7th century religion. If you are claiming otherwise please support your claim.

If you try to obfuscate by posting a blizzard of multiple unrelated topics, or material unrelated to the question, it will go straight to spam. Support your claim directly and succinctly or you will deserve another time out.

Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2010, 07:56:55 AM »
Can't you see, my friend? The Holy Land is the Holy Land. A thousand to fourteen hundred kilometers from Mecca. Jerusalem is twelve hundred kilometers from Mecca.
The only reason you declare the UNholy city of Mecca - and the Quraish's kaaba and their black stone idol - to be holy, is purely because Mohammed's followers say they are. And this solely because of the false prophet Mohammed.

Mujaheed

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2010, 08:44:03 AM »
Please answer in order as requested in the terms of your return to the forum. You have several more unsubstantiated claims to support. Please start with your first claim in that post.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8514#msg8514

MAKKAH IS THE HOLIEST CITY ON THE PLANET.

THE "Holy Land" is unarguably the historical and geographical epicenter of YHWH's temple, prophets and witnesses.
Holy Land
Temple

Mecca is the epicenter solely of Mohammedanism and it's lone "prophet" Mohammed. Your empty claim is made by those indoctrinated to follow Mohammed's 7th century religion. If you are claiming otherwise please support your claim.

If you try to obfuscate by posting a blizzard of multiple unrelated topics, or material unrelated to the question, it will go straight to spam. Support your claim directly and succinctly or you will deserve another time out.

Your claims and mine are borne out of our belief in the Scripture we follow, I recognise the truth based on the little knowledge I have of the Quran and the Sunnah and the years of reading the Bible and listening to Bible stories and my understanding is that it is one long chain of Prophethood from ADAM to Muhammad.

Many interpretations abound and most cling to the very traditions of the forefathers all the Prophets came to warn mankind about.

I really have no feelings about banning or sending stuff to spam, it is as irrelavent as our conjecture on matters pertaining to THE GOD and the truth. The land is declared Holy as a matter of the actions of the nation that Occupies it, Bani Israel were chosen to leave their land for Egypt (Joseph) does that make EGYPT HOLY LAND? Then They were chosen to go to Jerusalem where the Scriptures descended, but due to the unholy actions and beliefs another nation (ARABS were chosen in their place) and everything was returned to the origin of worship MAKKAH AND THE KA"BA!

YOU CAN ONLY UNDERSTAND THE TERM HOLY IN LIGHT OF THE SCRIPTURE THAT IS REVEALED TO MANKIND. If any of this sounds foreign to you it may be because you have a Euro-centric approach to an AFRO-SEMITIC (AFRICAN< PALESTINIAN AND ARAB RELIGION>), EUROPEAN INTERPRETATIONS OF THE EVENTS AND HISTOY OF THE SEMITIC RELIGION ARE PAGAN BASED AND THEREFORE DISTORTED.

Mujaheed

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Re: Love Your Neighbor
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2010, 09:37:13 AM »
Madina is Holy as is jerusalem (CITIS OF THE PROPHETS)

Simply saying something doesn't make it magically come true. What claim does Islam have on Jerusalem beside that which springs from Mohammed's unwitnessed story of his magic flying donkey-mule, even as you blaspheme the record of the prophets to follow Mohammed's law.
Please support your contention regarding Medina.

JERUSALEM
The Holy City

ISLAM DOES NOT VIEW THE MUSLIMS AS A SEPARATE NATION THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS PROPHETS, WE GIVE HONOUR AND REVERENCE TO ALL THE PROPHETS THAT CAME BEFORE< AND NATURALLY JERUSALEM IS THE EPICENTER OF MANY OF THE PROPHETS AS THEY WERE SENT TO THE BANI ISRAEL AS PROMISED BY ALLAH. THE BANI ISRAEL HOWEVER FORGOT THEIR PROMISE (COVENANT) AND BECAME DISOBEDIENT AND PLACED THEIR TRADITIONS AND CUSTOMS AND LAWS BEFORE THAT OF ALLAH DUE TO THEIR CONSTANT REJECTION OF SCRIPTURE< KILLING MANY PROPHETS THAT WERE SENT, THE LAST ONE BEING JESUS BORN OF MARY WHOM THE REJECTED AND WERE THUS REPLACED BY THE LINEAGE OF ISHMAEL. JERUSALEM IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST ONE NIGHT JOURNEY IN ISLAM, THE NIGHT JOURNEY WAS TO MASJIDUL AQSA.


Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2010, 09:46:23 AM »
Please answer in order as requested in the terms of your return to the forum. You have several more unsubstantiated claims to support. Please start with your first claim in that post.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1912.msg8514#msg8514

MAKKAH IS THE HOLIEST CITY ON THE PLANET.

THE "Holy Land" is unarguably the historical and geographical epicenter of YHWH's temple, prophets and witnesses.
Holy Land
Temple

Mecca is the epicenter solely of Mohammedanism and it's lone "prophet" Mohammed. Your empty claim is made by those indoctrinated to follow Mohammed's 7th century religion. If you are claiming otherwise please support your claim.

If you try to obfuscate by posting a blizzard of multiple unrelated topics, or material unrelated to the question, it will go straight to spam. Support your claim directly and succinctly or you will deserve another time out.

Your claims and mine are borne out of our belief in the Scripture we follow, .......

Indeed. Mine are from ALL of the the prophets and witnesses of YHWH, and the Gospel of Jesus the Messiah. The only person in the history of the world to be conceived by a virgin by the will of God. The only sinless person in human history.

Yours are from Mohammed and the STAND-ALONE 23 year record of recitations of A SINGLE, 7th century, illiterate, pillaging, plundering, murdering, child doing, prisoner raping, stepson's only wife taking, sex slave prostituting, concubine fornicating, cheating, blood drenched, imperialistic, conquering, terrorist, thief. A man, and book that are THE EXACT OPPOSITE of Jesus and the New Testament.

........ I recognise the truth .....

A "truth" that you are at an abject loss to support scripturally, historically, archaeologically or geographically.

..... based on the little knowledge I have of the Quran and the Sunnah and the years of reading the Bible and listening to Bible stories and my understanding is that it is one long chain of Prophethood from ADAM to Muhammad.

Many interpretations abound and most cling to the very traditions of the forefathers all the Prophets came to warn mankind about.

I really have no feelings about banning or sending stuff to spam, ........

Then I would recommend that you don't join forums that require you to engage in an exchange, and support wild claims that you make.

........ it is as irrelavent as our conjecture on matters pertaining to THE GOD and the truth. The land is declared Holy as a matter of the actions of the nation that Occupies it, Bani Israel were chosen to leave their land for Egypt (Joseph) does that make EGYPT HOLY LAND? Then They were chosen to go to Jerusalem where the Scriptures descended, but due to the unholy actions and beliefs another nation (ARABS were chosen in their place) and everything was returned to the origin of worship MAKKAH AND THE KA"BA!

YOU CAN ONLY UNDERSTAND THE TERM HOLY IN LIGHT OF THE SCRIPTURE THAT IS REVEALED TO MANKIND. If any of this sounds foreign to you it may be because you have a Euro-centric approach to an AFRO-SEMITIC (AFRICAN< PALESTINIAN AND ARAB RELIGION>), EUROPEAN INTERPRETATIONS OF THE EVENTS AND HISTOY OF THE SEMITIC RELIGION ARE PAGAN BASED AND THEREFORE DISTORTED.

So far the only support you have offered are your empty and meaningless words, that you blather in here because you follow Mohammed, because Mohammed told you to.

Peter

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Re: Love Your Neighbor
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2010, 09:54:48 AM »
Madina is Holy as is jerusalem (CITIS OF THE PROPHETS)

Simply saying something doesn't make it magically come true. What claim does Islam have on Jerusalem beside that which springs from Mohammed's unwitnessed story of his magic flying donkey-mule, even as you blaspheme the record of the prophets to follow Mohammed's law.
Please support your contention regarding Medina.

JERUSALEM
The Holy City

ISLAM DOES NOT VIEW THE MUSLIMS AS A SEPARATE NATION THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM THE PREVIOUS PROPHETS, ..........

We all understand what you WISH to believe you believe. But Mohammed WAS and taught the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So what you WISH you believed, and what you DO believe are to separate and very opposite things.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=148.0

.......... WE GIVE HONOUR AND REVERENCE TO ALL THE PROPHETS THAT CAME BEFORE< .......

But that's simply a repeat of the same wishful thinking. You don't intend to blaspheme them yet you follow Mohammed's ignorant and goofed up 7th century accounts of them and there-through blaspheme them, just as was prophesied of Mohammed's Islamic beast.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

........ AND NATURALLY JERUSALEM IS THE EPICENTER OF MANY OF THE PROPHETS AS THEY WERE SENT TO THE BANI ISRAEL AS PROMISED BY ALLAH. THE BANI ISRAEL HOWEVER FORGOT THEIR PROMISE (COVENANT) AND BECAME DISOBEDIENT AND PLACED THEIR TRADITIONS AND CUSTOMS AND LAWS BEFORE THAT OF ALLAH DUE TO THEIR CONSTANT REJECTION OF SCRIPTURE< KILLING MANY PROPHETS THAT WERE SENT, THE LAST ONE BEING JESUS BORN OF MARY WHOM THE REJECTED AND WERE THUS REPLACED BY THE LINEAGE OF ISHMAEL.

How can you make a ridiculous claim such as this, when even Mohammedans claim that Adam - the first man on earth - built the Kaaba?
What religion was Adam "replacing"?
See what happens when you follow and simply regurgitate lies without thinking? You wind up in a tangle.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1130.0
Besides Mohammed having been a Hamite, from Yemen, whose ancestors migrated to Yemen from Ethiopia.
The Ishmaelites were never within around a thousand kilometers of Mecca.

Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2010, 09:56:53 AM »
JERUSALEM IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST ONE NIGHT JOURNEY IN ISLAM, THE NIGHT JOURNEY WAS TO MASJIDUL AQSA.

Then please share with us. What other role did Jerusalem play IN THE FOUNDATION of Mohammed's 7th century religion, besides Mohammed's fanciful and UNWITNESSED night journey on a flying donkey-mule, and his lie that he prayed in a non-existent temple?

The only role Jerusalem played in Islam was much later on after being enslaved through Mohammedan conquest.

Peter

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Mohammedan Created Fiction
« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2010, 02:07:21 PM »
Chat on the article regarding the home of the prophets not being the Holy Land, Jerusalem and Israel, but instead being Mecca, merged with that now-dedicated thread.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=2057.0

ExMilitary

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Islamic Created Fiction
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2016, 01:15:03 PM »
Best read at the following link

https://pjmedia.com/faith/2016/08/30/new-book-history-is-entirely-incompatible-with-islam/

An American Muslim who investigated the historical evidence for Islam and Christianity discovered an astounding truth: the evidence is "entirely incompatible" with Islam, while it supports the three greatest arguments for Christianity.

"It was not just that history did not support the traditional narratives of Islam, but rather that history proved to be entirely incompatible with Islamic origins," writes Nabeel Qureshi (emphasis his), author of the book No God But One: Allah or Jesus? A Former Muslim Investigates the Evidence for Islam & Christianity. The book, released Tuesday, provides a deep investigation of the key differences between the two faiths and delves into the historical evidence (or lack thereof) for each.

Qureshi investigates five basic claims, each disputed by either side. He asks the question of whether there is enough evidence that "an objective observer" would conclude in favor of Christianity or Islam. The arguments for Christianity: that Jesus died on the cross, that his disciples believed he rose from the dead, and that he claimed to be God. The arguments for Islam: that Muhammad is a prophet of Allah, and that the Quran is inspired by Allah.

[more at the link]

PeteWaldo

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Islamic Created Fiction
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2016, 02:17:30 PM »
Nabeel is one of the guys with Acts 17 Apologetics, that got arrested on public streets for spreading the Gospel, at the Arab Festival in Detroit.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=3037.0

PeteWaldo

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Re: 7th and 8th Century Islamic Created Fiction
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2016, 09:10:13 AM »
"Sharia is believed by Muslims to be the divinely ordained legal system of Islam. It governs every aspect of life: politics, economics, hygiene, marriage and family relationships, diet, warfare, crime. Everything is covered."

There are four Sunni schools of Islamic law. I am currently reading an English translation of one of those schools. The book is Reliance of the Traveller by noted Islamic scholar Ahmed ibn Naqib al-Misri (translated by Nuh Ha Mim Keller and published in 1999).

In the introduction, the author states, "The four Sunni schools of Islamic law, Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, and Hanbali, are identical in approximately 75 percent of their conclusions. ... The present volume [The Reliance of the Traveller] represents one of the finest and most reliable short works in Shafi'i jurisprudence."

"Just a few pages before this (pages 595-596), the Islamic law code says this about freedom of religion:

    Leaving Islam is the ugliest form of unbelief (kufr) and the worst. It may come about through sarcasm, as when someone is told, "Trim your nails, it is sunna," and he replies, "I would not do it even if it were," as opposed to when some circumstance exists which exonerates him of having committed apostasy, such as when his tongue runs away with him, or when he is quoting someone, or says it out of fear.

    When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostasizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed.

    In such a case, it is obligatory for the caliph (or his representative) to ask him to repent and return to Islam. If he does, it is accepted from him, but if he refuses, he is immediately killed.

What other acts of faith (or non-faith) would invite capital punishment under Sharia? Here are just a few more (pages 596-597):

    to speak words that imply unbelief such as 'Allah is the third of three,' or 'I am Allah'-- unless one's tongue has run away with one, or one is quoting another, or is one of the friends of Allah Most High in a spiritually intoxicated state of total oblivion ...

    to revile Allah or His messenger ...

    to deny the existence of Allah, His beginingless eternality, His endless eternality, or to deny any of His attributes which the consensus of Muslims ascribe to Him;

    to be sarcastic about Allah's name, His command, His interdiction, His promise, or His threat;

    to deny any verse of the Koran or anything which by scholarly consensus belongs to it, or to add a verse that does not belong to it ...

    for a tyrant, after an oppressed person says, 'This is through the decree of Allah,' to reply, 'I act without the decree of Allah' ...

    to revile the religion of Islam;

    to deny the existence of angels or jinn or the heavens;

    to be sarcastic about any ruling of the Sacred Law;

    or to deny that Allah intended the Prophet's message ... to be the religion followed by the entire world. There are others, for the subject is nearly limitless.

While there are "secular" Muslims who believe that Sharia for the most part should not be binding on society, apparently many millions of Muslims seriously believe that this is the law that must be imposed upon all people everywhere all the time."
https://pjmedia.com/faith/2016/06/10/what-exactly-is-sharia-law-and-what-does-it-command/3/