Author Topic: .....he will confirm a COVENANT with many. Who is He that Daniel speaks of?  (Read 231 times)

PeteWaldo

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I received the following question via email:

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"In Daniel 9:27 The Bible says that he will confirm a COVENANT with many.
Who is He that Daniel speaks of?"

11-24

Hello Brother [redacted],

As you probably already know, the half of the church that is partial-preterist believes that prince to be Jesus, while the futurist half of the church believes it to be a man driven by Satan. Not sure why you all-capped "covenant" since it works either way.

Take for example the covenant that Muslims have with Satan through his false prophet Muhammad, to deny the crucifixion of Christ and thus His sin-atoning shed blood - the whole subject of the Gospel - as an article of their faith in THE false prophet Muhammad alone:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/#muhammad_on_the_gospel

Indeed so powerful is the Muhammadan's covenant with Satan they are taught that to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit the single most "heinous" and ONLY unforgivable sin in Muhammad's exactly and specifically counter-gospel, antichrist, anti-Christian cult:
http://www.brotherpete.com/unforgivable_shirk.htm

According to scripture that makes each and every one of the 1.5 billion followers of Muhammad undeniably an antichrist, as an article of their faith, in Muhammad alone:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/islam_is_antichrist.htm

No surprise then they are commanded by Muhammad to conquer and subjugate the whole world to Satan, through Muhammad's followers, as we witness around so much of the world today:
http://www.falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm#terror

You may also already know that your question involves the single most contentious element between the 20th century popularized approaches to bible prophecy of partial-preterism and futurism.

For an introduction to the following traditional historic approach to prophecy, I would highly recommend reading The False Prophet by Ellis Skolfield for some background, before proceeding with your question. For over 35 years Brother Skolfield wrote about the role of Muhammad and Islam in Bible prophecy. The book is free online and fun to read.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_great_detective.htm

That book presents a brick by brick empirical argument that is most understandable if you read from the beginning, while setting aside any eschatological approach you may have been taught, along with your preconceived notions.

If you lack the patience for reading that fun book, I recommend you at least begin to build a foundation to your question by taking a few minutes to review some of the impressive math problems that were assigned to us through prophecy, that are explored in that book, through the "language of prophecy" that was recognized by great men of God of the Reformation such as Thieleman van Braght, Matthew Henry and Isaac Newton which requires this traditional historicist approach.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm#time_times_half

If you would start a mystery by reading the last chapter first, you can go straight to Daniel's 70th week at this link.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/daniel_s_70th_week.htm

Please join us in the forum for Christian fellowship with any questions you may have. The search function works very well for finding threads that may already answer your questions. May the good Lord richly bless you brother, and lead us all, in all truth.

Your brother in Christ Jesus,

Pete

PeteWaldo

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Daniel 9:27 says He will confirm a covenant with  many .Is ( he ) JESUS CHRIST and is he confirming GOD'S promise  made to Abraham according to Gal. 3:15-19 ?

11-25

Certainly no shortage of preterists believe as you do. But I missed an explanation as to why you used all caps for covenant and a response to my reply.

So do you believe all bible prophecy was fulfilled in the first century (perhaps with the exception of the Second Coming of Christ).....
http://www.christianeschatology.com/partial_preterism.htm
.....and that the Jews are nothing more than occupiers of Muslim lands and were never prophesied to be restored to their/our land of Israel?
http://historyofzionism.com/zionism_in_christianity.htm#christians_on_zionism

Who/what do you believe the "beast" referenced in Rev chapter 13 was/is?
Who do you believe THE false prophet referenced in Rev 16:13, 18:20 and 20:10 is?

PeteWaldo

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I'm not a preterist I'm just a believer trying to divide the truth ,the reason I used all caps there are three main COVENANTS in the BIBLE. As to why I am asking about Dan. 9:27 Is this JESUS confirming the covenant He made with Abraham according to Galatians 3:15-19

11-25

I understood what you wrote, but the scriptures contain more than a few verses which requires that our understanding be consistent with of the rest of scripture, which is why I asked you the questions that I did after presenting an exegesis of that section of Daniel. How can I get an understanding of your whole approach to bible prophecy if you keep ignoring my questions? Since you aren't a preterist, then are you a futurist, idealist or historicist, or have you invented something new? What is the whole approach through which you understand New Testament bible prophecy was/will be fulfilled?

PeteWaldo

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Why do you want to label me as to what I believe ? I don't adhere to replacement theology. GOD established a COVENANT with Abraham JESUS fulfilled that covenant and JESUS'S crucifixion on the the cross abolished the sacrifice. The bible says what it says period. Scripture confirms scripture no other source or other people's theory or interpretation.

11-25

I did not label you. I asked you what your whole approach to New Testament prophecy is, since there are only 4 approaches. It is a very reasonable question.
http://www.christianeschatology.com/
As I explained it will help me get a better idea as to where you are coming from, since you have been so shy about offering me an idea by answering the questions I asked.

If you are unfamiliar with the 4 approaches to bible prophecy, it would help if you began by detailing your understanding of who/what the leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13 is, which is why I asked, since futurists believe that to regard some future "The Antichrist" of some future someday. You had already informed me you were not a preterist.

PeteWaldo

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I am going to assume you mean where do I stand concerning the second coming of JESUS CHRIST. I believe that JESUS will return at the last trump and that we who believe will caught up with him at that time . What I was looking for was a confirmation as to what I was reading in Dan. 9:27
1. Did JESUS'S crucifixion confirm a COVENANT ? ( yes )
2 Did He abolish the sacrifice ? ( yes )
3. Was it the middle of the week Wednesday ? ( yes )

11-25

Why would you feel the need to assume anything, since my questions were straight forward, and couldn't have been more direct and clear? Again, who/what is your understanding of the leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation chapter 13?

PeteWaldo

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11-25

So that you don't think I am ignoring your email, the way you have been mine, I presumed the following in your email went without saying:

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Why do you want to label me as to what I believe ? I don't adhere to replacement theology.

Which I gathered since you indicated you were not a preterist.

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GOD established a COVENANT with Abraham JESUS fulfilled that covenant and JESUS'S crucifixion on the the cross abolished the sacrifice.

I of course agree that Christ provided the one sacrifice for sin forever, but the subject you brought up regarded details in the figurative language of an old covenant prophetic dream.

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The bible says what it says period.

I agree.

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Scripture confirms scripture no other source or other people's theory or interpretation.

I couldn't agree more. Now I would appreciate it if you addressed my prior email.

PeteWaldo

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I'm not a preterist I'm just a believer trying to divide the truth ,the reason I used all caps there are three main COVENANTS in the BIBLE. As to why I am asking about Dan. 9:27 Is this JESUS confirming the covenant He made with Abraham according to Galatians 3:15-19

11-26

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; (does that really sound like the people of the Prince of Peace that are the destroyers of the city, or more like the people of the prince of the power of the air?) and the end thereof shall be with a flood, (of people overrunning the city and sanctuary) and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he (wouldn't this "and he" be referring to the same prince whose people destroyed the city and sanctuary?) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Take this example:

Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries. 22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. 23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

According to Zondervan's and Haley's Bible Handbooks the evil "prince of the covenant" of this passage is Antiochus Epiphanes.

PeteWaldo

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Thank you John for responding ,

I was glad to respond brother. It was just unfortunate our chat had to begin with the single-most contentious element in Christian eschatology. That's why I tried to move us to broader foundations first. Like using scripture to define and explain the very central figure of the "beast" of Revelation 13, which both preterists and futurists assign to the passage you selected. I hope you had a chance to review the page:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm

I believe unsound bible study is the reason a near unanimity of the church is blind to the role of the false prophet and the leopard-bear-lion "beast" (Muhammad's Islamic empire) in end-time prophecy.

PeteWaldo

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Thank you John for responding ,

Please excuse me. Rather I should have said "Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to respond and converse."

PeteWaldo

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John,one of the problems I have is between Jeremiah 25:21 and Daniel11:44 is Jer. Is clearly about end times but Dan. 11 seems to be another time.

Being a neophyte when it comes to historical context of old covenant passages, I rely heavily on bible scholars who have spent their lives studying biblical history and archaeology and such. For example the evil prince of that covenant Halley's suggested was Antiochus Epiphanes, is confirmed by Zondervan's bible handbook and I would guess a preponderance of both Christian scholars as well as Hebrew scholars who may not yet recognize Jesus as their Messiah.

From Halley's on Jeremiah 25:
"This was in the early part of Jehoakim's reign (1), abouit 604 BC. The remarkable thing is that the exact duration of Babylon's sway is foretold (11-14; 29:10; IIChronicles 36:21; Ezra 1:1; Daniel 9:2; Zechariah 7:5). An amazing prophecy. No possible way for Jeremiah to know that except by direct revelation from God."

From Halley's on Daniel 11 verse:
2 Cyrus, Cambyses, Darius Hystaspes. The "fourth" Xerxes
3 Alexander the Great
4 Greece, Asia Minor, Syria, Egypt
5 Ptolemy I of Egypt

etc. etc. in the succession of rulers and places too many for me to type.

21-35 Antiochus Epiphanes
29 Antiochus again

Quoting: "As to verses 36-45: Antiochus Epiphanes? Or Mohammedan Possession of Holy Land? Or Antichrist? Or all three?"

Halley's original copyright was back in 1927 before Jews regained control over their/our land of Israel and city of Jerusalem.
There is no doubt in my mind as to which of his guesses that passage refers to, whose "strange god" bears the name of the Arabian pagan's moon god, and whose rituals come straight from Arabian pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship.
http://www.brotherpete.com/hajj_umrah.htm#index

Take for example Daniel 11:37 and the desires of women:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/women_in_islam.htm

If you take a little time to read "The False Prophet" from the beginning, I guarantee it will bless you as richly as it has every single person I have met that has read it. You will come away from the book with your eyes wide open to Islam in prophecy and won't even be mystified by the content of world news.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_great_detective.htm

If you aren't a decades devoted scholar in biblical history, and don't already have one, I recommend you get a good conservative bible handbook to help with your studies like Halley's or Zondervan's. You should be able to buy one cheap online. Also please feel free join us in the Christian forum with any questions you may have. The forum search function works very well! Also there are a few brethren that may join in our conversation with added insight.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php

I look forward to seeing you there!
Sincerely,
Your brother in Christ Jesus,
Pete

PeteWaldo

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Re: .....he will confirm a COVENANT with many. Who is He that Daniel speaks of?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 11:13:01 AM »
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John ,I just sent a previous email but I'm not sure it got sent ,a problem with my tablet.  In response to Dan .11 :41 The Bible says Edom, Moab and Ammon will be spared . Jer. 25:21 says they will not.

I received your email OK, but my reply took a while to compose and passed your next email on the information highway.
My offhand presumption would be the passages are detailing 2 different periods in history, but some of my brethren in the forum may be better versed in this detail.
Also there is a considerable amount of verse by verse exegesis of passages in Daniel covered in The False Prophet. I have found that a more productive use of both of our time may result from your reading the book. It's free, fun and shouldn't take but some hours to finish.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/contents_tfp.htm