Author Topic: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA (Kaaba)  (Read 104276 times)

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2010, 07:29:57 AM »
I cannot understand how you can be so dogmatic about a simple ritual, .......

A "simple ritual" through which the Mohammedans worship Mohammed's "Allah", just as the Arab pagans did did before him - even side by side until Mohammed threw them out of their own ritual.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
   Narrated Abu Huraira:
   In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

Sahih Bukhari  Volume 1, Book 8, Number 365:

..... the word venerated is as many of your words is an attempt at misguidance and a clear indication of your intentions.

It is not my word. So you're the one that is guilty of the very "misguidance" that you falsely accuse me of.
Webster's Dictionary
Venerate
1 : to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference
2 : to honor (as an icon or a relic) with a ritual act of devotion

As you can see Muslim rituals and prayer toward their black stone constitute the very definition of venerate.





I have explained it to you but you do not accept it. Your failure to find the history of the Ka'aba (you checked the libraries in Makkah and Madina   ??? of course not

Arabic speaking, Dr. Rafat Amari did, in the course of his 20 year study.
Where is your historical and archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed prior to the Christian era?

Are you suggesting that the historical record of Mecca - the epicenter of Islam allegedly since Adam - is some sort of a closely guarded secret hidden in Mohammedan libraries for a few thousand years?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1465.0

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2010, 07:34:07 AM »
The Muslims ruled the known world (70% of Europe) and collected all the books of knowledge in Bagdad (undisputed fact) that is why you have a bible today (thakns to the Muslims) ........

Surely you can't be that ignorant. The Scriptures had been copied many thousands of times in virtually every language known to man, and were being read all over the known world, hundreds of years before Mohammed was ever born. Let alone before the Islamic murder, mayhem, misery and slavery visited on innocent peoples of the world through the imperialistic conquest of the Islamic First Jihad that you make reference to.

........ All the history of the Greeks, Romans, Persians, Spanish, and Christians 9t+remember Constantinople (now Istanbul) came under Muslim Rule.

And Mohammedans destroyed as much historical record as they could, in an effort to replace it with the 7th and 8th century created fictional Mohammedan history.

So tell me who is more likely to have the books and History of the Entire Region stretching from The South of France in the West to China in the East, Russia in the North and Africa as far as the equator???????

History is history. It is a record that is kept by those who lived in or near the period written about.
So where is this history of Mecca that you have been indoctrinated to believe spanned many thousands of years?
Where are these historical records that are thousands of years old?
Where are all the artifacts? Are you aware that there are a million artifacts - just on display - in Jerusalem?
Show us.
Bring EVIDENCE to bear on your otherwise vacuous, hollow and empty words.

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2010, 07:40:44 AM »
Islam is not a simple minded religion (an ignorant disbeliever cannot understand it).

Then why is it most popular among illiterates in 3rd world countries? For the same reason that 75% of Americans leave Islam within a few years according to Al Jazeera. And even many of those are, little doubt, the illiterate jailhouse "converts".

Sorry AnnaMuslim but as has been shown, Muslims must first devoid their minds of scripture, history, archaeology, and geography until their minds mirror that of 7th century desert dwellers to buy into Mohammed's STAND-ALONE, 7th century fiction.
Until you bring EVIDENCE to bear, you will not be able to refute that except through your own, so-far, empty hollow words.

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2010, 07:45:15 AM »
I will attempt to explain Islam to you in context of the Black stone. that you say is venerated as the pagan worshippers did.

It isn't about what I say.
Was the very same black stone, venerated by Arab pagans before Mohammed, or not?
Did Arab pagans circumambulate the kaaba and black stone in ceremony or not?

Yes or No?

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2010, 07:16:48 AM »
I begin in the Name of ALLAH the most merciful the most benevolent.
ALL praise is due to ALLAH the Lord of the Universe.

Dear Pete

I am scholar of Religion and the more I read Scripture (Jewish and Christian) and history of Religion (I live in a country where the Muslims are a very small minority) all our Books are Eurocentric and from American writers (western Scholars), I find the proof for the religion of Islam. The more books I read and do a comparison i find the evidence that Quran is divine and that it could not be written by a man, It could not be completely studied or the wisdom of the verses exhausted.

 I am not a blind follower, nor am I Biased nor indoctrinated as I am free of national pride, economical might, I ahve no superiority complex built in as a consequence of the society i find myself in, I attended an Anglican School, very similar to a roman Catholic one and I am basing my belief and what I accept as the truth on the evidence presented to me.

I can Assure you that you are being misled, by your scholars, you cannot enter into a decent discussion without monotonous repeat and regurgitating false accusations based on the emotions of corrupted scholars who I can Assure you is definitely not doing it out of their love for Yeshua (Jesus) Nabi EESA, the Messiah, messenger and spirit of ALLAH. They are bound by their arrogant pride to prove that they are right. The truth of Islam will soon overtake all their efforts. The truth will reach the majority of the human race very soon as it is reaching you and you are free to accept it or reject it.

I don't deny Scripture but the light of Islam has endowed me with the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, your statements like "venerated" is a clear indication that you have absolutely no idea how Jesus Prayed, how he fstaed, how he fell on his face and Prayed, how his miracles are possible, how his disciples followed him and spread the true Injeel.

A prophet is marked by the fact that his coming changes the course of history and ushers in a period of peace (golden age) Muhammad's coming has clearly brought about the much needed change in the world from the 7-14th century. Reread the true history of the world.

Jesus second coming will mark his period of peace on earth. jesus did not die on the cross

The cross is a symbol of execution not and object of veneration unless you a pagan, Satan wants to see human blood being spilt not animal blood, Satan wants none of the divine laws for humans and Satan waants to digrace you by making you commit the greatest sin a human being can commit (ascribing partners to GOD)

There is none worthy of worship but ALLAH, Muhammad is the prophet and final messenger of ALLAH.

May ALLAH guide us to the Straight path, Ameen


Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2010, 03:12:58 PM »
I begin in the Name of ALLAH the most merciful the most benevolent.
ALL praise is due to ALLAH the Lord of the Universe.

Dear Pete

I am scholar of Religion and the more I read Scripture (Jewish and Christian) and history of Religion (I live in a country where the Muslims are a very small minority) all our Books are Eurocentric and from American writers (western Scholars), I find the proof for the religion of Islam. The more books I read and do a comparison i find the evidence that Quran is divine and that it could not be written by a man, It could not be completely studied or the wisdom of the verses exhausted.

 I am not a blind follower, nor am I Biased nor indoctrinated as I am free of national pride, economical might, I ahve no superiority complex built in as a consequence of the society i find myself in, I attended an Anglican School, very similar to a roman Catholic one and I am basing my belief and what I accept as the truth on the evidence presented to me.

I can Assure you that you are being misled, by your scholars, you cannot enter into a decent discussion without monotonous repeat and regurgitating false accusations based on the emotions of corrupted scholars who I can Assure you is definitely not doing it out of their love for Yeshua (Jesus) Nabi EESA, the Messiah, messenger and spirit of ALLAH. They are bound by their arrogant pride to prove that they are right. The truth of Islam will soon overtake all their efforts. The truth will reach the majority of the human race very soon as it is reaching you and you are free to accept it or reject it.

I don't deny Scripture but the light of Islam has endowed me with the ability to distinguish between right and wrong, your statements like "venerated" is a clear indication that you have absolutely no idea how Jesus Prayed, how he fstaed, how he fell on his face and Prayed, how his miracles are possible, how his disciples followed him and spread the true Injeel.

A prophet is marked by the fact that his coming changes the course of history and ushers in a period of peace (golden age) Muhammad's coming has clearly brought about the much needed change in the world from the 7-14th century. Reread the true history of the world.

Jesus second coming will mark his period of peace on earth. jesus did not die on the cross

The cross is a symbol of execution not and object of veneration unless you a pagan, Satan wants to see human blood being spilt not animal blood, Satan wants none of the divine laws for humans and Satan waants to digrace you by making you commit the greatest sin a human being can commit (ascribing partners to GOD)

There is none worthy of worship but ALLAH, Muhammad is the prophet and final messenger of ALLAH.

May ALLAH guide us to the Straight path, Ameen

The reason you obfuscate rather than simply answering questions is because you are buried in lies and fully understand that the truth is entirely ugly.
Before I pick apart the above, please answer the question I asked previously, that you gave your typical non-response to.

Was the very same black stone, venerated by Arab pagans before Mohammed, or not?
Did Arab pagans circumambulate the kaaba and black stone in ceremony or not?

Yes or No?

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2010, 06:12:27 AM »
I begin in the Name of ALLAH the most merciful the most benevolent.
ALL praise is due to ALLAH the Lord of the Universe.

Here is the evidence that the Ka'aba was a place of worship before the Time Of Jesus (messiah born of Mary)

http://volker-doormann.org/kaaba23.htm

Quote
Edward Gibbon writes about the Kaaba and its existence before the Christian era in his book: "The genuine antiquity of Caaba ascends beyond the Christian era: in describing the coast of the Red sea the Greek historian Diodorus has remarked, between the Thamudites and the Sabeans, a famous temple, whose superior sanctity was revered by all the Arabians; the linen of silken veil, which is annually renewed by the Turkish emperor, was first offered by the Homerites, who reigned seven hundred years before the time of Mohammad." Diodorus Siculus was a Greek historian of 1st century BC who wrote Bibliotheca Historica, a book describing various parts of the discovered world. The following lines are the English translation of Greek quoted by Gibbon from the book of Diodorus Siculus (Diodorus of Sicily)  describing the 'temple' considered to be the the holiest in the whole of Arabia. 'And a temple has been set-up there, which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all Arabians.'
G E von Grunebaum says: "Mecca is mentioned by Ptolemy, and the name he gives it allows us to identify it as a South Arabian foundation created around a sanctuary."



The ka'aba and makkah in the BIBLE
Jude 14-15
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Muhammad conquered Makkah with 10 000 of his Companions

 15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
ten years he tried to convince the quraish of the wrong-doing and The ungodly worship of idols and human gods

Conquest of Makkah by Muslims in the Bible
"And Enoch also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14-15)"


"And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
(Deuteronomy 33:2)" Please don't try to say it is a new Jewish kibbutz by the same name that appeared in 1976


"Lord came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise." (Habakkuk 3:3)

Hastings dictionary of the Bible describes Teman as an oasis just north of Madina. Paran is the city of Makkah. E-sword dictionary also agrees with this.

Plus other evidence is also available for this claim.

The evidence is by non-Muslims.

Prophet Muhammad (s) is the only man in history to migrate from Makkah to Madina and then return to Makkah with 10,000 men.

The army of the Muslims that conquered Mecca without any blood shed (peacefully) were exactly 10,000 men (From the book of "Muhammad the Prophet" by Maulana Muhammad Ali, pages 128-129). The Bible calls them "ten thousands of saints"

A Christian once claimed:
The saints were angelic beings and it was God who descended and not Prophet Muhammad (s).


My response:
The dictionary does not agree that a saint is an angel. A saint is a human being.
If we look at the words carefully, we see that the verses are clearly stating that it is a prophecy and therefore the question of past tenses does not arise.

It is not God personally who is being talked about but the knowledge of God because God is not limited to a single place.


Ka'ba in vedic tradition (this is an opinion of a Hindu taken from his historical records)

Quote
Vedic Past of Pre-Islamic Arabia

Vedic Past of Pre-Islamic Arabia - by Aditi Chaturvedi

Many centuries before prophet Muhammad and the destructive advent of Islam, Arabia or Arabistan was an extremely rich and glorious center of Vedic civilization. It is the prophet Muhammad and the followers of Islam who are fully responsible for the dissemination and destruction of this once glorious culture.

In learning about this most ancient heritage, let's begin with the word Arabistan itself. Arabistan in Sanskrit terms is Arvasthan which means The Land of Horses. Since time immemorial proponents of the Vedic culture used to breed exceptional horses in this region. Thus eventually the land itself began to be called Arva (Horses) -Sthan (place). The people who lived in this land were called Semitic. Semitic which in Sanskrit is Smritic. Arabs followed the ancient Vedic Smritis such as Manu-Smriti as their revered religious guides and thus they were identified as Smritic.

At that time the Uttarapath (Northern Highway) was the international highway to the North of India. It was via Uttarapath that Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries drew their spiritual, educational and material sustenance from India. Besides, this Sea-links were formed with India at least 800 years before the advent of Islam. Basra was the ancient gateway to India because it was at this port that the Arab lands recieved Indian goods and visitors.


"Aya muwarekal araj yushaiya noha minar HIND-e Wa aradakallaha manyonaifail jikaratun"

"Oh the divine land of HIND (India) (how) very blessed art thou! Because thou art the chosen of God blessed with knowledge"

"Wahalatijali Yatun ainana sahabi akha-atun jikra Wahajayhi yonajjalur -rasu minal HINDATUN "

"That celestial knowledge which like four lighthouses shone in such brilliance - through the (utterances of) Indian sages in fourfold abundance."

"Yakuloonallaha ya ahal araf alameen kullahum Fattabe-u jikaratul VEDA bukkun malam yonajjaylatun"

"God enjoins on all humans, follow with hands down The path the Vedas with his divine precept lay down."

"Wahowa alamus SAMA wal YAJUR minallahay Tanajeelan Fa-e- noma ya akhigo mutiabay-an Yobassheriyona jatun"

"Bursting with (Divine) knowledge are SAM &YAJUR bestowed on creation, Hence brothers respect and follow the Vedas, guides to salvation"

"Wa-isa nain huma RIG ATHAR nasayhin Ka-a-Khuwatun Wa asant Ala-udan wabowa masha -e-ratun"

"Two others, the Rig and Athar teach us fraternity, Sheltering under their lustre dispels darkness till eternity"

This poem was written by Labi-Bin-E- Akhtab-Bin-E-Turfa who lived in Arabia around 1850 B.C. That was 2300 years before Mohammed!!! This verse can be found in Sair- Ul- Okul which is an anthology of ancient Arabic poetry. It was compiled in 1742 AD under order of the Turkish Sultan Salim.

That the Vedas were the religious scriptures to which the Arabs owed allegiance as early as 1800 B.C. proves not only the antiquity of the Vedas but also the existence of Indian rule over the entire region from the Indus to the Mediterranean, because it is a fact of history that the religion of the ruler is practised by his subjects.

Vedic culture was very much alive just before the birth of Muhammad. Again let's refer to the Sair-Ul-Okul. The following poem was written by Jirrham Bintoi who lived 165 years before the prophet Muhammed. It is in praise of India's great King Vikramaditya who had lived 500 years before Bintoi. (found in the Ka'aba)

"Itrasshaphai Santul

Bikramatul phehalameen Karimun

Bihillahaya Samiminela

Motakabbenaran Bihillaha

Yubee qaid min howa

Yaphakharu phajgal asari

nahans Osirim Bayjayholeen

Yaha sabdunya Kanateph natephi

bijihalin Atadari Bilala masaurateen

phakef Tasabahu. Kaunni eja majakaralhada

walhada Achimiman, burukan, Kad, Toluho

watastaru Bihillaha yakajibainana baleykulle amarena

Phaheya jaunabil amaray Bikramatoon" - (Sair-ul-Okul, Page 315)

"Fortunate are those who were born during King Vikram's reign, he was a noble generous, dutiful ruler devoted to the welfare of his subjects. But at that time, We Arabs oblivious of divinity were lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting & torture were rampant. The darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb struggling for its life in the cruel jaws of a wolf, we Arabs were gripped by ignorance. The whole country was enveloped in a darkness as intense as on a New moon night. But the present dawn & pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favor of that noble king Vikram whose benevolence did not lose sight of us foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred culture amongst us and sent scholars from his own land whose brilliance shone like that of the sun in our country. These scholars & preceptors through whose benevolence we were once again made aware of the presence of god, introduced to his secret knowledge & put on the road to truth, had come to our country to initiate us in that culture & impart education."

Thus we can see that Vedic religion and culture were present in Pre-Islamic Arabia as early as 1850 B.C., and definitely present at the time of Mohammed's birth. (AT THE KA'ABA

In his book Origines, Volumes 3 & 4", Sir W. Drummond adds:

"Tsabaism was the universal language of mankind when Abraham received his call, their doctrines were probably extended all over the civilized nations of Earth."

Tsabaism is merely the corruption of the word Shaivism which is Vedic religion. On page 439 of this book, Sir Drummond mentions some of gods of pre-Islamic Arabs, all of which were included in the 360 idols that were consecrated in the Kaba shrine before it was raided and destroyed by Muhammad and his followers. Here are some of the Vedic deities and their original Sanskrit names:

Arabic Sanskrit English

Al-Dsaizan Shani Saturn

Al-Ozi or Ozza Oorja Divine energy

Al-Sharak Shukra Venus

Auds Uddhav -

Bag Bhagwan God

Bajar Vajra Indra's thunderbolt

Kabar Kuber God of wealth

Dar Indra King of gods

Dua Shara Deveshwar Lord of the gods

Habal Bahubali Lord of strength

Madan Madan God of love

Manaph Manu First Man

Manat Somnath Lord Shiv

Obodes Bhoodev Earth

Razeah Rajesh King of kings

Saad Siddhi God of Luck

Sair Shree Goddess of wealth

Sakiah Shakrah Indra

Sawara Shiva-Eshwar God Shiva

Yauk Yaksha Divine being

Wad Budh Mercury

The Kaba temple which was misappropriated and captured by Muslims was originally an International Vedic Shrine. The ancient Vedic scripture Harihareswar Mahatmya mentions that Lord Vishnu's footprints are consecrated in Mecca. An important clue to this fact is that Muslims call this holy precint Haram which is a deviation of the Sanskrit term Hariyam, i.e. the precint of Lord Hari alias Lord Vishnu. The relevant stanza reads:

"Ekam Padam Gayayantu

MAKKAYAANTU Dwitiyakam

Tritiyam Sthapitam

Divyam Muktyai Shuklasya Sannidhau"


The Shiv Ling at The Kaba. It was broken in seven places and now is held together by a silver band.

The Black Stone which is the Shiv Emblem (also known as Sange Aswad which is a corrupted form of the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta--meaning non-white stone) still survives in the Kaba as the central object of Islamic veneration. All other Vedic Idols could be found buried in the precincts or trampled underfoot in labyrinthine subterranean corridors if archaeological excavations are undertaken. The Black Stone has been badly mutilated, its carved base has disappeared and the stone itself is broken at seven places. It's parts are now held together by a silver band studded with silver nails. It lies half buried in the South Eastern portion of the Kaba Wall. The term Kaba itself is a corruption of the Sanskrit word Gabha (Garbha + Graha) which means Sanctum.

In addition, in the inscriptions from Hajja and its neighborhood was found a votive vessel dedicated by members of two tribes called Rama and Somia. Rama and Soma are Vedic deities, Rama is of the Solar dynasty and Soma is of the Lunar Dynasty. The moon god was called by various names in pre-Islamic times , one of them was Allah. Allah had 3 children, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. Al-Lat and Al-Uzza were both feminine deities. Alla is another name for the Hindu goddess Durga. It is obvious that the goddess Al-Lat was Alla (Durga) and Al-Uzza was Oorja (energy or life force also known as Shakti). Manat was none other than Somnath which is another name for Lord Shiva. One significant point to note that Soma in Sanskrit means Moon and Nath means Lord. Thus the Kaba itself was dedicated to the Moon God Somnath alias Shiv and the word Somnath was corrupted to Manat. The famous Black Stone is none other than the ShivLing of Makkeshwar alias Mecca. Lord Shiva is always shown with a crescent Moon on his head and every Shiva temple is supposed to have a sacred water spring representing the Ganges. The Crescent Moon pinnacle of the Kaba and the Zamzam spring (actually Zamza from Ganga) are irrefutable testaments to the Vedic origins of the Kaba.

Maqam-E-Ibrahim or more appropriately the pedestal of Brahma.

Muslims from all over the world pay homage to this shrine. This shrine is actually the pedestal of Brahma. Notice that the word, Ibrahim is actually a corruption of the word, Brahma. The octogonal grill which is a Vedic design, protects the holy footprints which represent the start of the creation nearly 2000 million years ago. Before it was captured by the Muslims it was an international shrine of the Vedic trinity.

In fact the names of the holiest of Muslim cities Mecca and Medina come from the Sanskrit words Makha-Medini which means the land of Fire-Worship. Even the most ancient names of these 2 cities were Mahcorava-which came from Mahadeva (Lord Shiva) and Yathrabn - which came from Yatra-Sthan (place of pilgrimage).

Islam came into being about 1372 years ago. It is well known that over 7500 years ago, at the time of the Mahabharat War, Kurus ruled the world. The scions of that family administered the different regions. Prophet Muhammed himself and his family were adherents of Vedic culture. The Encyclopedia Islamia admits as much when it says: "Muhammed's grandfather and uncles were hereditary priests of the Kaba temple which housed 360 idols!"

According to Arab traditions, Muhammad is a title. We do not know what name his parents had given him. We do however know that the central object of worship which survives at the Kaba today is a Shivling. That was allowed to remain there because that was the faceless family deity of Muhammad's family. One of the original names of Lord Shiv is Mahadev (The Great God) therefore it is entirely possible Muhammad came from Mahadev. This appears fairly certain because the Arabs still have a Mahadevi sect. Moreover the title Mehdi of a Muslim chief is also a malpronounciation of the term Mahadeva. According to Sanskrit etymology the term Muhammad implies 'a person of great inspiration' - 'Mahan

Muhammad's uncle was one of the resident priests of the Shiv temple known as "Kaaba". This sacred sanctum was decorated in an extremely rich and beautiful fashion. The Kaaba was astronomically oriented to face the winds. The minor axis of the rectangular base of the Kaaba was solistically aligned towards summer sunrise and winter sunset. It contained 360 statues of Vedic deities and was a shrine primarily associated with sun worship. The temple was an architectural representation of an interlocking set of theories covering virtually all creation and comprehending chemistry, physics, cosmology, meteorology and medicine. Each wall or corner of the Kaaba was associated with a specific region of the world. Thus this glorious Hindu temple was made to symbolically represent a microcosm of the universe. The Arabs would face east when praying. This representation of a microcosm demonstrated by the eight directional structure was derived from the Tantric pattern (Refer to Figure 1) of Hinduism. Right at the centre of the Kaaba was the octogonal pedestal of Bramha the creator. Today this very pedestal is called Maqam-E-Ibrahim by the Muslims. A tantric pattern defines the structure of Kaaba

Muhammad destroyed all 360 idols, but even he could not summon the courage to completely obliterate the Shivling in the Kaaba. He entered the temple and kissed the black stone. The Shivling was so sacred that the man who so detested idol- worship ended up kissing the largest idol in the Kaaba. Later his followers in a fit of piety broke the Shivling and then out of remorse repatched it together again. Today it lies broken at seven places and held together by a silver band studded with silver nails, bearing the name "Sangey Aswad" which came from the Sanskrit Ashwet meaning non-white or black stone.

On 1st January AD 630, the Prophet of Islam and 10,000 of his followers set out on the expedition to conquer Mecca. Their sole purpose of mind was to subvert all traces of the ancientmost religion of their forefathers. Nothing was to be considered sarcosanct, anything that was connected with Arabia's glorious Vedic heritage was to be defiled and distorted. Before setting out for Mecca, Muhammad had managed to turn his father-in-law and previous enemy Abu Sofian, leader of the Quraysh, into a traitor. Abu Sofian rode ahead of the Prophet's army into Mecca. Upon reaching he screamed at the townspeople, "Muhammad is coming, Muhammad is coming, he will be here with a force that we cannot resist".

Note: The Works "The Life & times of Muhammad" by Sir John Glubb, "Mohammed & the Rise of Islam" by D. S. Margoliouth, "The Art of Jordan" by Piotr Bienkowski, "Deities & Dolphins" by Nelson Glueck and "Hindu Temples: What Happened to Them?- Volume 2" by Sita Ram Goel have been used to compose this article.


There are many factual traditions from all over the world that have written by Scholars, Parsi have their traditions and claims of the Ka'aba

The various stories and traditions points to the following

1, the Ka'aba was there thousands of years before Muhammad
2, It was a place of worship
3, worship was based on prophetic tradition and scripture
4, It was connected to both the East (Indian and Persian Empires that stretch as far as China and Wesy as far as Egypt including Palestine and Jarusalem
5, Prophets were sent over time to mankind as they deviated from the worship of one GOD and the oneness of God
6, The prophetic traditions were relevant to the time in which they were sent
7, Muhammad was the final messenger that merged the wisdom of the ages and came to show the world the correct way of worshipping ALLAH, reverence of the Prophets, the meaning of the Holy sites, the perfection of character.

The ka'aba is central to the direction of worship, not an object of worship but a unifying symbol for all races.

And ALLAH knows best.
May ALLAH bestow his mercy on us
ALLAh is the king of the day of DEEN (Judgement)
ALLAH Alone do we aorship and his aid alone do we seek
May ALLAH guide us and keep us on his straight path
The path of the righteous who came before us
Not the path of those that incurred his wrath
nor the Path of those that has gone astray


Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2010, 06:26:00 AM »
Everything goes to your spam storage until you start answering questions and ENGAGE in DIALOGUE.
You left unanswered questions like that above elsewhere as well. Please address all of these questions.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=466.msg5930#msg5930
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=56.msg5797#msg5797

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2010, 03:16:09 PM »
I answered your Question on the black stone and you send it to spam because you dont like the answer!!!

The black stone is evidence that ALLAH had sent prophets to Arabia and that certain of the pagan worship was based on older scripture, have a look at the Vedic claims that Ka'aba used to be a Hindu temple and the black stone central to the worship. Muhammad mere continued in prophetic tradition and venerated the black stone as the previous prophets did.

Islamic scholars believe that 125000 prophets were sent to mankind over time from Adam, we do not know all there names, all their traditions and revelations. The ones we do no are recorded in Scripture Approximately 25, all with the same message worship the ONE GOD and the ONeness of GOD!! only

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2010, 03:27:15 PM »
I answered your Question on the black stone and you send it to spam because you dont like the answer!!!

I removed it to spam because it wasn't an answer at all.
I restored it so all could see what you describe as an answer to a yes or no question.
IT DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION AT ALL. It was pure obfuscation OUTSIDE OF MY QUESTION. And you still didn't answer my question with this post.
A bunch of copy and pasted Paran, Mecca, Baca blather that you have already included in other posts that you have already gotten answers to. It's impossible for a Muslim to be concise because it makes it easier for a lie to be distinguished from truth.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1138.15

Was the very same black stone, venerated by Arab pagans before Mohammed, or not?
Did Arab pagans circumambulate the kaaba and black stone in ceremony or not?

Yes or No?

See how easy it would make things if you simply answered YES? Since you know and I know that is the truth?

The fact is you bow toward and circumambulate the very same black stone that the pagans circumambulated.
That's a simple matter of fact, isn't it?
Why do you suppose you are so reluctant to admit it? Are you ashamed of the 5th pillar of Islam now that you have seen it's pagan origins?

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2010, 03:39:52 PM »
The black stone is evidence that ALLAH had sent prophets to Arabia and that certain of the pagan worship was based on older scripture, have a look at the Vedic claims that Ka'aba used to be a Hindu temple and the black stone central to the worship. Muhammad mere continued in prophetic tradition and venerated the black stone as the previous prophets did.

What "prophets" engaged in pagan Arabian Star Family worship around the kaaba?
Or are you trying to say that the pagan idol worshipers were actually engaged in worship of the God of the scriptures?

Islamic scholars believe that 125000 prophets were sent to mankind over time from Adam, we do not know all there names, all their traditions and revelations.

The reason you don't know is because THE ENTIRETY of Islamic "history" was a 7th and 8th century AD creation. PURE FICTION. So those like Ishak and Tabari left that blank for you, while writing a preposterous history that is laughable.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1483.0

The ones we do no are recorded in Scripture Approximately 25, all with the same message worship the ONE GOD and the ONeness of GOD!! only

NONE of the prophets of the scriptures WERE EVER in the place where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century AD.

If you believe they were, which 25 "prophets" were they?

What is the difference between the ceremonies that Muslims practice today, like Tawaf and the Sa'ee, from the way the pagans practiced those ceremonies before Mohammed?
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?board=59.0

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2010, 04:11:15 PM »
Quote
Was the very same black stone, venerated by Arab pagans before Mohammed, or not?
Did Arab pagans circumambulate the kaaba and black stone in ceremony or not?
Yes or No?

See how easy it would make things if you simply answered YES? Since you know and I know that is the truth?

The fact is you bow toward and circumambulate the very same black stone that the pagans circumambulated.
That's a simple matter of fact, isn't it?
Why do you suppose you are so reluctant to admit it? Are you ashamed of the 5th pillar of Islam now that you have seen it's pagan origins?


Dear Peter, well actually thank you Peter
You have been inspirational, I started to ask questions and found very interesting answers
Yes the stone is venerated by all Muslims and I have to ask why and the reason is that the pagans did it and where did they get it from, well apparently the Indians have the answer,

Is GOD unfair, well no, did GOD not send prophets and warners to everyone on earth? well yes he did, is the rituals Muhammad's own doing, he never participated in anything other than the placing back of the stone and never venerated it until commanded to!!

Tawaaf aorund the ka'aba was changed, as commanded by ALLAH and so it goes on, all the practices based on earlier prophetic, traditions,
belief and conviction of Abraham, his sacrifice, his Journey, his wife running for water, the water,
Moses and the Pharoah and the Prophetic laws (all Islamic Laws Now)
Wisdom of Solomon
Faith of Job (through trials and tribulations)
Faith of Jonas
David and Goliath (One man against the falsehood of the day)
Handsome like Joseph
Jesus Messiah born of mary(teaching love Hope and Charity) all Islamic laws

Muhammad gave us the wisdom and the prayers of all the prophets

ITs not pagan worship, or plagiarized or stolen or imitated, or falsified or soothsaying, or poetry competitions or the beast or the mark of the beast, it is simply a guide to perfecting your character, by perfecting your relationship with ALLAH.

And ALLAH knows best.

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2010, 04:18:13 PM »
Quote
Was the very same black stone, venerated by Arab pagans before Mohammed, or not?
Did Arab pagans circumambulate the kaaba and black stone in ceremony or not?
Yes or No?

See how easy it would make things if you simply answered YES? Since you know and I know that is the truth?

The fact is you bow toward and circumambulate the very same black stone that the pagans circumambulated.
That's a simple matter of fact, isn't it?
Why do you suppose you are so reluctant to admit it? Are you ashamed of the 5th pillar of Islam now that you have seen it's pagan origins?


Dear Peter, well actually thank you Peter
You have been inspirational, I started to ask questions and found very interesting answers
Yes the stone is venerated by all Muslims and I have to ask why and the reason is that the pagans did it and where did they get it from, well apparently the Indians have the answer,

I would like to thank you very sincerely for finally becoming conversational, rather than copy and pasting a bunch of stuff that has already been answered to.

If you believe the Indians have the answer then perhaps you should become a Hindu.

Is GOD unfair, well no, did GOD not send prophets and warners to everyone on earth? well yes he did, is the rituals Muhammad's own doing, he never participated in anything other than the placing back of the stone .....

That's right. He threw out 359 idols but saved one to appease the pagans. The very same stone idol that Muslims venerate, bow toward, travel to and circumambulate today - just as the pagans did.

...... and never venerated it until commanded to!!

You mean until Mohammed SAID he was commanded to.
He said Allah commanded him to sexually assault female prisoners too.
He also said he rode on a flying animal to Jerusalem, Heaven and back to Mecca by morning.
Do you really believe that God told Mohammed to venerate the very same black stone idol that the pagans venerated? Does that seem reasonable to you?
Did Abraham break all of his father's idols except one? Except his favorite perhaps? Except the one that was considered the most powerful idol? No.
Did Mohammed get rid of them all except the favorite? Yes.

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2010, 04:24:39 PM »
Tawaaf aorund the ka'aba was changed, as commanded by ALLAH and so it goes on, all the practices based on earlier prophetic, traditions,

Indeed. The traditions of the pagan Arabian Star Family worshipers. They continued to perform their pagan ceremonies and then the Muslims joined them shoulder to shoulder, right up until the last Hajj of Mohammed when they finally kicked the pagans out of their own ritual.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 2, Book 26, Number 689:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:
    In the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Allahs Apostle made Abu Bakr the leader of the pilgrims, the latter (Abu Bakr) sent me in the company of a group of people to make a public announcement: 'No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year, and no naked person is allowed to perform Tawaf of the Kaba.'

Can you imagine naked pagans and Muslims performing Tawaf?

And since there is not A SINGLE SHRED of historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, or it's Kaaba before the 5th, then it is an absolute that it was the pagans that built the Kaaba and instigated the pagan rituals there.

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2010, 04:33:42 PM »
belief and conviction of Abraham, his sacrifice, his Journey, his wife running for water, the water, .....

This is a big fat Mohammedan lie. First Hagar was Abraham's wife Sarah's servant.
Second, Mecca is over a thousand kilometers from where Abraham ever was, and over 1200 kilometers from where is was buried near Hebron. Please bring the EVIDENCE that Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael were ever where Mecca was eventually built, to the appropriate thread.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1483.0

......Moses and the Pharoah and the Prophetic laws (all Islamic Laws Now)
Wisdom of Solomon
Faith of Job (through trials and tribulations)
Faith of Jonas
David and Goliath (One man against the falsehood of the day)
Handsome like Joseph
Jesus Messiah born of mary(teaching love Hope and Charity) all Islamic laws

Is that supposed to be the list of "prophets" that you claim were in Mecca?

Muhammad gave us the wisdom and the prayers of all the prophets

ITs not pagan worship, or plagiarized or stolen or imitated, .......

But that is EXACTLY what it is. It is the very same rituals that the pagan moon, sun and star as well as jinn/demon worshipers engaged in.

For example, the running back and forth from Safa and Marwah is what they did when they had stone idols of the most venerated priest and prestess of the Arabian Jinn religion placed on those two hills.
Mohammed's grandfather dug the well of Zamzam and dedicated it to Asaf and Neila. He almost sacrificed his son - Mohammed's father - to the two stone idols.
http://www.brotherpete.com/hajj_umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2010, 04:37:17 PM »
......... or falsified or soothsaying, or poetry competitions or the beast ......

Mohammed's Islamic empire is the kingdom "beast" as revealed through the prophets Daniel and John.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=12.0

....... or the mark of the beast, .......

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1308.0

...... it is simply a guide to perfecting your character, by perfecting your relationship with ALLAH.

So that's why Sunnis murder Shiites?

And ALLAH knows best.

"Allah" is the name of the pagan moon god. It will never be a NAME of God. Just as was prophesied of the false prophet Mohammed and his kingdom beast.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2010, 04:56:08 PM »
Quote
"Allah" is the name of the pagan moon god. It will never be a NAME of God.

Surely you cannot be that ignorant of the language of the prophets and Jesu, well if you are a simple minded example might help to clear things up for you:

al elah(ALLA) The GOD, AL the one and only elah(GOD)
from the first scripture revealed to the Cross, elah elah (al elah) ALLAH

Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.[6] (Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for 'God'.) Arab Christians for example use terms All?h al-?ab (???? ????) meaning God the Father, All?h al-ibn (???? ?????) mean God the Son, and All?h al-r?? al-quds (???? ????? ?????) meaning God the Holy Spirit (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God).

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2010, 06:39:10 AM »
(Disappeared then restored from database)

Quote
"Allah" is the name of the pagan moon god. It will never be a NAME of God.

Surely you cannot be that ignorant of the language of the prophets and Jesu, ......

If you are suggesting it was Arabic, that is pure foolishness. Particularly the Arabic of the Quran which was the dialect of the Quraish which was quite new on the world scene.

"Arabs remained illiterate throughout the millennia, which is why we know so little about them. And it is why they knew so little about the world that engulfed them. Their language was derived from Aramaic, the dominant tongue of history's initial millennia. But Arabic found neither stylus nor pen for one hundred generations. By Muhammad’s time, less than one in a hundred Arabians could write. Classical Arabic, the language in which the Qur'an would come to be written, was just beginning to evolve in Syria."

Arabic evolved from Aramaic
See what pure unmitigated nonsense you have been taught to believe?

.... well if you are a simple minded ......

My friend, it is you that must void your mind of scripture, history, archaeology and geography until you have achieved the mind of a 7th century Arabian desert-dwelling illiterate.

..... example might help to clear things up for you:

al elah(ALLA) The GOD, AL the one and only elah(GOD) <br />from the first scripture revealed to the Cross, elah elah (al elah) ALLAH

Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God".

That's right. They use it as a term meaning God. To describe deity.
But Muslims use it as a NAME for God. That's why your first pillar reads "there is no ilah but Allah". So ilah is obviously the generic Arabic term for God.
"Allah" will never be a NAME for God because it does not mean "I AM" - YHWH - Yahweh, in any language on earth.
That's why every time you call God's NAME "Allah" you speak blasphemy, because your false prophet taught you to.

Exd 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Other titles in scripture are used as descriptive terms for attributes for God, but He has only one name. The name He told us is His name.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=577.0

The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for "God" than &"Allah".[6]

And I would not be surprised if they discover the error of their ways and repent in this information age.

(Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for "God";.) Arab Christians for example use terms All?h al-?ab (???? ????) meaning God the Father, All?h al-ibn (???? ?????) mean God the Son, and All?h al-r?? al-quds (???? ????? ?????) meaning God the Holy Spirit (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God).

See what happened? You ignored almost the entirety of my reply, and picked the last point, that you thought you could make hay with. But it backfired on you just like all the rest of the lies of Mohammedanism.
   

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2010, 06:28:34 PM »
Dear Peter

Everything I type is relevant and not spam, you have so little understanding that I have to begin at the basics in order for you to grasp simple Religious concepts, before you are able to understand your role as a human being.You are not a person that listens to logic, you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity, you present opinions as evidence. Most disturbing is that you quote from the Quran and Hadith out context and verses you have no knowledge of, you act out of ignorance, and your disrespect is not dialogue.   

PICTURE YOURSELF IN THE YEAR 610 SURROUNDED BY THE KIND OF SLAVE WHIPPING, CHILD MURDERING, TRIBAL DISCRIMINATION, JEWISH EXPLOITATION (JEWS OUTNUMBERED ARABS IN MADINA) IN AN IDOL WORSHIPPING REGION. WHERE THE ONLY PLACE THEY DIDNT KILL YOU WAS AROUND THE KA'ABA. Picture a place that attracted people from Africa, in the east and as far as the borders of china in the west converging on a place of worship that has been there for millennia Your Logic you have did not exist and would not exist if Muhammad did not rise as a Prophet of ALLAH. the entire world acknowledges this except for a handful of arrogant stubborn ignorant scholars. Check Islamic dynasties and see the difference between the contributions made by Islam and the Muslims in comparison to the rest of the world. Google history of coffee to begin with.

I had a long hard look at all religions, all the deviated religions do not understand the Holy spirit and end up worshipping one, ore more like the Xhosa in Southern Africa worship the Spirits of ancestors, Hindus worship reincarnated spirits of humans and calls them divine, Red Indian in USA is known to believe in spirits of animals, Mayans, Egyptians and Christians all worshipping spirits and makes a human being divine all the same deviation clothed in a different color cloth. That is completely against the teachings of the Prophets from the Time of ADAM to Muhammad and includes Jesus messiah born of Mary (the virgin).

I don't have to prove that the term ALLAH is the only name of GOD, it is in all the scriptures written in Aramaic, Arabic, Hindi Persion and Jewish (hebrew) Scriptures. I don't have to prove the Ka'aba is the first house of worship on earth, Scriptures of five different regions confirm it, Jewish scriptures, Christians, Zoroastrian, Hindus and Buddhist, and If I search hard enough I will find others, I am certain that if you wanted to you could find more evidence of it than I can.

Funny you havent peiced together the history of your own Bible. What you have is opinion of writers about Abraham and Isaac and Ishmael and Jacob, Moses, David and Jesus, not documented fact, and it is not whether we accept it or reject it, thats what it is, the stories have no relevance no purpose no meaning, they are merely historical events to christians, only Muslims honor the prophets of the scriptures in worship, you call Islamic practice pagan, how Ironic, I have five pagan accounts of virgin birth, crucifixion on a cross and rising from the dead after three days.

The New testament is not the Bible of Jesus, it is an opinion that is why it is according to and not by, The opinion of the the interpretation of the the rewording of and opinion that suits the Romans of the Time. Had to be translated into Latin with changes in order to get the Romans to accept it. The Romans were then Rulers of that region. The superpower of the day so to speak. And as history has shown us, all who think they are super powers, disappear into history like a golden era that never returns.

ALLAH Grants to whom he wills and withholds from whom he wills, he guides whom he wills and leaves to go astray the arrogant wrong doer.

I read through your posts they are not worth wasting time on if you persist in the habit of being disrespectful about matters you clearly care not to understand. I cannot stand racism and you my friend think yourself superior to other races. It demonstrates the low level of your intelligence. I get a picture of a  rogue that curses and swears all the time, not caring who he insults.
Your knowledge is inferior and your questions clear indications of your lack of understanding of GOD, Holy spirit and salvation.

Advice of all the prophets and this one is repeated by Muhammad (may ALLAH bestow peace be upon him
There is no God but ALLAH
The Ruh (spirit) is the command of ALLAH AMR is cammand and it is within all of us, and is the essence of life and it has to return to ALLAH, the RUH is place in a state of purity and has to return to ALLAH in that state of Purity, Islam shows you how to purify your Spirit. From ALLAH we all come (Jesus ascended to ALLAH and he will return to earth to live out his life like all humans and his Ruh (spirit) will return to ALLAH like all of our spirits) and unto ALLAH is our return.



With Kind Regards in the Spirit of learning and teaching.

And ALLAH knows best what is true and correct
I pray that ALLAh forgive me for any sins that I have committed and if I am the reason your heart does not soften towards the truth.

MAY ALLAH GUIDES US ALL IN OUR ENDEAVOURS TO GAIN KNOWLEDGE AND THE TRUTH>

ONLY SATAN THINKS HE IS RIGHT AND IN NO NEED OF GUIDANCE< MAY ALLAH PROTECT US FROM SATANS PLOTS AND WHISPERING>

« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 03:45:06 AM by AnnaMuslim »

resistingrexmundi

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2010, 11:29:24 AM »
... you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity...

Two points I would like to address.

1. At what point does disagreeing with someone make them a racist?

2. You haven't presented any evidence. You have just shared opinion and presupposition. When confronted with verses from the koran and hadith that have consistently shown Muhammad to be immoral and his religion a pagan rip-off you obfuscate instead of actually answering questions.

In the future keep personal attacks to yourself or at least be prepared to give evidence of their validity.
Doth that man love his Lord who would be willing to see Jesus wearing a crown of thorns, while for himself he craves a chaplet of laurel? Shall Jesus ascend to his throne by the cross, and do we expect to be carried there on the shoulders of applauding crowds? Charles H. Spurgeon

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #45 on: July 06, 2010, 05:16:49 PM »
In the Name of ALLAH the Most Merciful the most benevolent
ALL praise is due to ALLAH the king of the DAY of Judgement


Quote
Two points I would like to address.

1. At what point does disagreeing with someone make them a racist?

2. You haven't presented any evidence. You have just shared opinion and presupposition. When confronted with verses from the koran and hadith that have consistently shown Muhammad to be immoral and his religion a pagan rip-off you obfuscate instead of actually answering questions.

In the future keep personal attacks to yourself or at least be prepared to give evidence of their validity.
Posted on: July 05, 2010, 04:28:34 PM Posted by: AnnaMuslim

Firstly I pointed to the fact that the Arab, Indian, Persian and african Scholars are clearly missing from your quoatations and when one brings forth any argument from any of them you say it cannot be because European writers disagree. The Greek persian, Roman and jewish Phylosophies from Aristotle, Plato to ptolemy was compiled edited and written by Islamic scholars and handed to the West as a gift for your renaissamce to be possible, Please get a copy of the video produced by Empire of faith, produce by Robert Gardner and narratted by Ben kingsley and then we can have a discussion. on the origin of your text and the baselesness of your racism.

Secondly You are presenting the evidence but refuse to accept it, DID The OLD TESTAMENT SAY :hear ye o' israel your lord god is on ( Laa illaa ha illalla) There is no God but ALLAH and he is One.

Now count the amount of Prophets mentioned, and every nation was sent a prophet and very nation had a warner but human beings are heedless of their duty to ALLAH, they twist and as the Bible says 

I Say the Stone is kept as an object of reverence as it must have had significance to previos prophets you insist that it is pagan worship, I say the Pagans must have taken their worship from previous prophets and deviated bothe the meaning and ritual and importance as many religious scholars across the entire spectrum of religions do, You say Muhammad followed pagan worship, this is not a discussion, this is an arrogant child insisting on something or having his own way!!!!!


I say that the inference that you draw is unfounded, how could you possibly think like a 7th century Jewish woman??? You are attributing your foul values and projecting what you believe on to the Quran and the Hadith

Start with the basics of the Quran and build your understanding up to the wars and the captives and the concubines, you have a small mind driven by western corrupted values systems.

GOD MADE THINGS LAWFYUL AND UNLAWFUL< you like a pagan makes the the opposite

CIRCUMCISION I can Assure you Jesus was circumcised like every Muslim and Jew is
Baptized (Ghusl - a mandatory bath for a Muslim purifying himself)
JESUS Prayed (Made Salaah like we do) He fell on his face like we do.
The disciples made a circle around him (Google Sufi Practices) A crcle is made and GOD is Praised
Jesus fasted for many days (Muslims fast for many days)
Jesus gave charity (Sadaka is huge in ISlam) Setting a slave free is sadaka
Jesus taught brotherhood and keeping ties (It is FARD in ISlam)
Jesus had a beard and wore robes ( I give you one quess as to who closely resembles Jesus)
Jesus did not have a Temple (ALLAH made the whole world a mosque) you can pray (SALAAH anywhere)JESUS wished to pray in the house of ALLAH (HOUSE OF THE LORD) (BAITULLAAH- the Ka'aba)

You want evidence, you have all the evidence you choose to attribute your own meanings to it, you fail to understand its context and purpose, you harp on things that are neither fundamental or even obligatory, or even Nafl (EXTRA)

KISSING THE BLACK STONE IS NOT OBLIGATORY, IT is not fundamental to being a muslim or Islam, It is a Tradition of the Prophet, I can do it out of reverence for the Prophet or I can choose not to do it, does not make me less of a muslim.
I DONT VENERATE IT

AS far as my personal attacks are concerned they are my impressions that the writers give me of themselves when they have no respect and repeat foul mouthed comments without any knowledge or concern, this is very much the way of a PAGAN>

ALLAH KNOWS BEST
MAY ALLAH GUIDE US to the Straight path

MAY ALLAH FORGIVE ME FOR MY SHORTCOMINGS
MAY ALLAH

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2010, 06:32:36 AM »
Dear Peter

Everything I type is relevant and not spam, ......

But this very post demonstrates the opposite of your claims. I went point by point through the entirety of your prior post, and rather than respond to my replies point by point you ignored all of them but one. Then you turn around with more of this blah, blah, blah.

...... you have so little understanding that I have to begin at the basics in order for you to grasp simple Religious concepts, before you are able to understand your role as a human being.You are not a person that listens to logic, you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, ........

What race claims a franchise on Islam?
None of course. You level false accusations of racism rather than replying with substance.

...... you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity, ......

So far all you have offered is 18th century Englishman Gibbon's misunderstanding. Why don't you present evidence rather than blather? Try starting with this Wikipedia article "Ancient Towns in Saudi Arabia".

Bring your EVIDENCE from the hindus, Arabs and Persians to make your case.
Please see "CLASSICAL WRITERS SHOW MECCA COULD NOT HAVE BEEN BUILT BEFORE THE 4th CENTURY AD"
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1138.0

Why don't you try reading it this time? You even added vacuous comments to the thread earlier that added absolutely nothing. Why not try bringing some EVIDENCE to support your false accusations?
If you had actually read the thread you would have noticed that those authors quoted were not Americans.

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2010, 06:51:11 AM »
........ you present opinions as evidence.

This is patently false as clearly shown in the EVIDENCE of these threads.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1138.0
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1132.0

And what did you bring? Empty OPINION and continuous false accusations. Where is your EVIDENCE?
Muslims always believe that somehow when they speak a falsehood, that it will somehow magically become truth, but your self-delusion is on display for all to see.

Most disturbing is that you quote from the Quran and Hadith out context and verses you have no knowledge of, you act out of ignorance, and your disrespect is not dialogue.   

I'm afraid it is you that is ignorant to Islam. You need to pay closer attention to the Middle East Muslims that GET Islam.

PICTURE YOURSELF IN THE YEAR 610 SURROUNDED BY THE KIND OF SLAVE WHIPPING, CHILD MURDERING, TRIBAL DISCRIMINATION, .......

Wouldn't be a surprise of the pagan Arabs since even Mohammed's occult worshiping grandfather nearly sacrificed Mohammed's father to the most venerated priest and priestess of the Arabian jinn/demon religion at the well of Zamzam that he had dug and dedicated to veneration of them.
http://www.brotherpete.com/hajj_umrah.htm#al_safa_al_marwah

....... JEWISH EXPLOITATION ......

But were the Jews sacrificing their children to jinn/demon worship? No. They had been following God for 2,000 years before Mohammed made up his phony STAND-ALONE 7th century religion.

And how Hitleresque of you.
When a bunch of lazy people sit around and do nothing, while criticizing another group as exploitative, that is in fact hard working, enterprising and productive, and thereby operate the means of production because they created it. And still do.
Just as the Jews produced and exported over a hundred million dollars worth of produce from greenhouses in Gaza, when 50 years before it had been a barren desert wasteland.
Then the so-called Palestinians took it over and gutted out all the greenhouses, and today beg for handouts from the world community. You see? The Muslims as a group, haven't changed any more than the Jews have as a group, over all those years.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=494.0

But Mohammed attacked and slaughtered those hard working Jewish farmers and their sons, that kept to themselves, so he could steal their wives, children, and all of the property they had built, and camels and date trees they had labored over, and wealth they had produced.

Look at how the world has been blessed by the Jews.
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1534.0

..... (JEWS OUTNUMBERED ARABS IN MADINA) IN AN IDOL WORSHIPPING REGION. WHERE THE ONLY PLACE THEY DIDNT KILL YOU WAS AROUND THE KA'ABA.

Not something I would brag about if I were you. Basically you are saying that pagan superstitions saved Arabs formed oases here and there to help prevent them from murdering each other to extinction.
However Sunnis still target for murder innocent Shiite men, women and children. But then Sunnis don't consider Shiites "innocent" do they.

Picture a place that attracted people from Africa, .......

Is that supposed to be some kind of sick twisted joke? Africans were captured and pressed into service as slaves by Islam until the late 20th century. See the nonsense you have been taught?
http://www.brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=456.0

Peter

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2010, 06:58:57 AM »
Dear Peter

Everything I type is relevant and not spam, you have so little understanding that I have to begin at the basics in order for you to grasp simple Religious concepts, before you are able to understand your role as a human being.You are not a person that listens to logic, you only listen to European and Americanized logic and that makes you a racist, you refute evidence from Hindus and Arabs and Persians that the Ka'aba existed long before Christianity, ........

You are now required to back up your accusations, before you post any more, unrelated to that backing up.

Where did I refute the "evidence" that you claim I refuted? How can one refute something that one hasn't seen?
Where is the evidence from the Hindus, Arabs and Persians to which you refer?
Please bring the EVIDENCE, and post it at the following thread link so we can compare the EVIDENCE.
I of course mean historical evidence. Not that 7th and 8th century created Islamic historical fiction penned by those like Ishak and Tabari, but the actual historical record, recorded by those living in or near the times during which it is recorded.
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=1138.0

......... you present opinions as evidence. Most disturbing is that you quote from the Quran and Hadith out context and verses you have no knowledge of, you act out of ignorance, and your disrespect is not dialogue.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,    3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good

AnnaMuslim

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Re: THE TRUE STORY OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE TEMPLE OF MECCA
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2010, 10:28:18 AM »
Let me clear up the Black stone story for you.
I for one don't venerate it, I now actually think of it when I make my Salaah, A combination of physical, emotional and spiritual movements that align the soul with nature and ALLAH. I Salaah in the direction of Ka'aba, I amglad we do, Jerusalem has not had peace in the last 2000 years, too many invaders and corrupt leaders fighting and controversy.

I realise that you are not interested in what I believe, you want proof of the majesty of ~ALLAH then tell me what GOD calls himself, Please do not quote the Corrupted text that is a copy of Gilgamesh!!!

Please do not quote Paul or Peter or John or Q, or any Person for that matter Quote GOD!

(I dont expect you to because no-one has taught it to you. You dont speak with respect or reverence even when Quoting your own scripture, that is how I know that you are not GOD-fearing and neither is Ellis SKollfield and the atheist commentators of your so called references. Thats Right I have no respect for the men that have no belief in Religious matters!!

DOCTRINES (GOSPELS ACCORDING TO DOES NOT CONSTITUTE RELIGIOUS MATTERS) They are commentaries (EVERY BIBLE SCHOLAR KNOWS THAT.

ASK A QUESTION< YOU SEEM TO HAVE NONE< ONLY FALSE ACCUSATIONS

Would you say the needle is not in the haystack just because you cannot find it, that is and arrogant statement,

The historians cannot find evidence for Makkah because they are believing the wrong people, any evidence would be destroyed, not preserved as Makkah has been built and rebuilt over the centuries, as has the Ka'aba, Rebuilt is not the the same as built. The city lies in a valley that is prone to floods and over the centuries the city has been washed away a few times, do you want evidence, check to see floods in makkah as late as 2010.

Please, tell your scholars if they cannot understand something to keep their inferences false accusations, proposterous logic to their own kind, I do not take lightly to vanity of men that have hatred in their hearts,

WHAT WOULD JESUS DO, scoff, ridicule and insult a person, or would he pray for their salvation,

YOU have not once prayed for me in this FORUM, shows ho little you care for the advice of Jesus.

Ecclesiastes 3:17 I said to myself, "God will judge both the righteous man and the wicked man," for a time for every matter and for every deed is there.
King James Bible
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

No-one dies for sins every one will be brought to account!!

ALL Praise id Due to ALLAH (creator and sustainer of the universe)
May ALLAH guide us
May ALLAH forgive our sins
May ALLAH bestow peace and blessings on his beloved Prophet, Muhammad, his followers and family
 MAY ALLAH show bestow his mercy on us