Author Topic: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?  (Read 3321 times)

Cephyr13

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7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« on: December 07, 2008, 08:30:44 AM »
I know Skolfield's interpretation of the 7 headed 10 horned beast, but John Williams said his own interpretation is slightly different than Skolfield's. Does anyone know how John's interpretation differs?  Thanks.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 08:54:19 AM by Cephyr13 »

Peter

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2008, 11:12:50 AM »
What is your interpretation of the 7 headed 10 horned beast?

Hey Cephyr13! Welcome to the forum and good to have you on board, my friend, and brother in Christ Jesus.

If your question regards the beast of Revelation 13, (passage here) my view falls within the traditional continuous historic context and is discussed some at the following links, and is consistent with, and inspired by Ellis Skolfield's book, The False Prophet (available for free here) who's understanding of this eschatology dates back to almost 30 years ago, places Islam in the central role, as the end-time foe, of God's people.

The main key being Daniel's lion, bear and leopard kingdom "beasts" ( Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...) being babylon, medo-persia and Greece as a broad group of Christians and Jews understand (over 20,000 hits, even in quotes), defining the same seat as the leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13, the same seats being occupied by Syria/Lebanon, and Iran and Iraq.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=12.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm

For one verse by verse view of Revelation 13:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/leopard_bear_lion_beast.htm

I believe the composite leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13 is a description of the physical and historical circumstances that have brought mankind to this point in world history, while the scarlet beast of chapter 17 is parallel, but discusses of the spiritual condition and nature of mankind over that same period.

The seven heads may be viewed in the light of the eight kings/beasts:
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=13.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm
The number being 8 because the 7th beast is the Islamic First Jihad and the 8th being the Second Jihad in the image of the first. The same king/beast/HEAD but healed.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Maps of the succession of kingdoms really help:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm#maps_8_beasts





Cephyr13

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 08:52:46 AM »
What is your interpretation of the 7 headed 10 horned beast?

Hey Cephyr13! Welcome to the forum and good to have you on board, my friend, and brother in Christ Jesus.

If your question regards the beast of Revelation 13, (passage here) my view falls within the traditional continuous historic context and is discussed some at the following links, and is consistent with, and inspired by Ellis Skolfield's book, The False Prophet (available for free here) who's understanding of this eschatology dates back to almost 30 years ago, places Islam in the central role, as the end-time foe, of God's people.

The main key being Daniel's lion, bear and leopard kingdom "beasts" ( Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...) being babylon, medo-persia and Greece as a broad group of Christians and Jews understand (over 20,000 hits, even in quotes), defining the same seat as the leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13, the same seats being occupied by Syria/Lebanon, and Iran and Iraq.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=12.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm

For one verse by verse view of Revelation 13:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/leopard_bear_lion_beast.htm

I believe the composite leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13 is a description of the physical and historical circumstances that have brought mankind to this point in world history, while the scarlet beast of chapter 17 is parallel, but discusses of the spiritual condition and nature of mankind over that same period.

The seven heads may be viewed in the light of the eight kings/beasts:
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=13.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm
The number being 8 because the 7th beast is the Islamic First Jihad and the 8th being the Second Jihad in the image of the first. The same king/beast/HEAD but healed.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Maps of the succession of kingdoms really help:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm#maps_8_beasts

I'm sorry. What I should have asked is, does anyone's interpretation differ in any way from Skolfield's interpretation. I know Skolfield's stuff pretty well. He's a friend. But John Williams had said his interpretation of the 7 headed beast differed slightly from Skolfield's. So I was wondering how it differed. Figured he or someone here could explain the difference in interpretations. You linked to John's website about the beast, so I assume you have a similar view as he does. How does that view differ from Skolfield's? Thanks.

- Brian

Peter

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 11:16:16 AM »
What is your interpretation of the 7 headed 10 horned beast?

Hey Cephyr13! Welcome to the forum and good to have you on board, my friend, and brother in Christ Jesus.

If your question regards the beast of Revelation 13, (passage here) my view falls within the traditional continuous historic context and is discussed some at the following links, and is consistent with, and inspired by Ellis Skolfield's book, The False Prophet (available for free here) who's understanding of this eschatology dates back to almost 30 years ago, places Islam in the central role, as the end-time foe, of God's people.

The main key being Daniel's lion, bear and leopard kingdom "beasts" ( Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...) being babylon, medo-persia and Greece as a broad group of Christians and Jews understand (over 20,000 hits, even in quotes), defining the same seat as the leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13, the same seats being occupied by Syria/Lebanon, and Iran and Iraq.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=12.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_beast.htm

For one verse by verse view of Revelation 13:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/leopard_bear_lion_beast.htm

I believe the composite leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13 is a description of the physical and historical circumstances that have brought mankind to this point in world history, while the scarlet beast of chapter 17 is parallel, but discusses of the spiritual condition and nature of mankind over that same period.

The seven heads may be viewed in the light of the eight kings/beasts:
http://brotherpete.com/index.php?topic=13.0
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm
The number being 8 because the 7th beast is the Islamic First Jihad and the 8th being the Second Jihad in the image of the first. The same king/beast/HEAD but healed.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Maps of the succession of kingdoms really help:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/johns_eight_beasts.htm#maps_8_beasts

I'm sorry. What I should have asked is, does anyone's interpretation differ in any way from Skolfield's interpretation. I know Skolfield's stuff pretty well. He's a friend. But John Williams had said his interpretation of the 7 headed beast differed slightly from Skolfield's. So I was wondering how it differed. Figured he or someone here could explain the difference in interpretations. You linked to John's website about the beast, so I assume you have a similar view as he does. How does that view differ from Skolfield's? Thanks.

- Brian

One addition could be that when fire comes down from the sky, by the two horned beast (Crusades / western powers) who are in the presence of the Islamic beast, it could also be a reference to artillery of the British mandate, and from the first horn, fireballs catapulted during the Crusades. I happened to notice a promo for a movie about the Crusades that mentioned that too many fireballs were used. Could also be that Hollywood got the dating of Crusades and fireballs wrong. I haven't had time to confirm they were used in the crusades. If so, very graphic image through an ethnographic hermeneutic!


One area is the scarlet beast. While there is no shortage of scholars that view the Roman Church as the harlot, it may be that this is just one part of the ecumenical church that could be represented.
Many insist because of Rome's 7 "hills", though it can be translated both ways.

Rev 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Another use of "mountain":

Jer 51:25  Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

Perhaps coupled with the 7 mountains. Remembering back there seemed to be a little difficulty with it being the Roman Church.

Here is a sketchy start. Not very viewable by the public. Been a long time since I visited the page and without even reviewing it before linking to it here. The economic notes at the bottom were written long before this year's downturn:
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_scarlet_beast.htm

Cephyr13

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 06:37:27 PM »
I read the page, but I still can't figure out how it differs from Skolfield's view. Can someone show me what I'm missing here?

Peter

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 09:58:17 AM »

Cephyr13

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2009, 11:46:44 AM »
The entire world, or world system, is the whore/mystery babylon, because the last verse says Rev 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.

Peter

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2009, 03:29:59 PM »
The entire world, or world system, is the whore/mystery babylon, because the last verse says Rev 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.

Are "babylon the great", and "mystery babylon" the same? Is there a transition in:

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.


The link I pasted above concludes of chapter 18:

"Revelation 18:24  And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

This is where we learn the breadth and depth of the great harlot.  ALL THAT WERE SLAIN UPON THE EARTH."

Cephyr13

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2009, 04:00:07 PM »
There is a transition, but it's a transition to the next part of the chiasm. Ch 17 is speaking of the Satanic Kingdom(s), and ch 18 is speaking of the Satanic system. One is more physical, and one is more spiritual, but both are describing two sides of the same coin. Could this satanic system have eventually formed religious organizations for representation? Sure. But it would encompass all religions, not just one or two, in my opinion.

Cephyr13

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 09:36:34 AM »
Wow, it's been a while since we had this discussion.

I just noticed that I said something incorrectly in my last statement. I, like Ellis, believe that this "mystery Babylon" is a symbol representing everyone that is not saved (the world at large whom is in rebellion to God), and the leader of this people is Satan. That's why it says:

Rev 18
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

I'll explain it in chiasm form so that you will relate better:

Here is how I see those symbols, in my opinion:

A) God - Our Fiancee
B) His Bride (the saved) - His Fiancee
C) New Jerusalem - Symbolically God's city for His bride, comprised of the people whom make up His bride, and located in heaven (the kingdom of God/heaven)

C) Mystery Babylon - Symbolically Satan's city for his whore, comprised of the people whom make up his "whore of mystery Babylon" (located on earth, because the earth is fully in sin)
B) The Whore (the unsaved) - Those whom are rebelling against the bridegroom by figuratively "sleeping" with Satan by sinning/selfishness.
A)Satan - The guy trying to steal God's bride away

This makes the most logical sense to me. All of the symbols fit into this chiasm well. We "come out" of the kingdom of the earth, mystery Babylon, and "into" the kingdom of heaven when we're saved. And then, notice how God's vision in Revelation shows the New Jerusalem decending from the clouds. That's God bringing His heaven located kingdom into the earth, merging it with the earth. How can He do that with sin in the earth? He can't. So He has to separate Satan and his mistress (the whore) from earth first. So God judges and casts them all into hell, fully separating sin from His creation. That's when the heavens and earth are made "new" again, being without sin, just like in the beginning, when no sin had been commited in any way yet. That was when heaven and earth were connected more closely, and that is when God and man were connected spiritually (before sin severed the original connection). God will reconnect the earth fully with Him in the end, in my opinion, by separating the evil completely.

God seems to identify His own people in the Old Testament as being "whores" when they leave Him and go commit adultry with false religion (or for some, no religion at all... just sheer resistance of God). Keep this in mind.

When I was more saturated with religion, I saw the parables the way religion sees them: in a self-centered way, as if the parables are about the church. When God pulled me out of religion and showed me how to trust Him to teach me, He showed me that the parables are about everyone, saved and unsaved. The parables suddenly made a WHOLE lot more sense to me and they fit into the rest of the Bible and into the prophetic symbols as well. Never before was that all connected. Now, for me anyway, it is.

I think the big picture is that God looks at humans, as a whole, as His people whom He created (either His children or His bride, because that's what all people were originally intended for). We see that in His parables quite a bit. And his prophecies also seem to be the same way. I believe He's looking at all humans and saying that this whore represents all in resistance to Him, because they're basically selfishly fulfilling their lusts with Satan rather than connecting with God and denying their selfishness and lusts. Since we all basically are born into this world (this city, mystery Babylon), into sin, we basically all start out as this whore. And He says, "come out of her, my people". He's asking the ones whom He knows will choose salvation to come out of her, which represents the passages and parables where the shepard calls His sheep and they know His voice and they come follow Him. So that is a picture of us coming out of mystery Babylon, the earth which is ruled by sinful man, whom are controlled by their sin nature (and we know Satan is the ruler of this sin nature), and so they, in a sense, are ensnared to Satan, to some extent, in their sins.

I can't say if I'm right or not, of course. This is only my view & opinion. I'm basically wanting to share our views with each other. Hopefully, we will both figure out the truth in our views and that will help us construct the correct picture of how God has painted all of this for us in scripture. While I know a decent amount about prophecy, it is not my calling. It would seem my calling is to help multiples for the time being.

Peter

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 10:02:03 AM »
There is a transition, but it's a transition to the next part of the chiasm. Ch 17 is speaking of the Satanic Kingdom(s), and ch 18 is speaking of the Satanic system. One is more physical, and one is more spiritual, but both are describing two sides of the same coin. Could this satanic system have eventually formed religious organizations for representation? Sure. But it would encompass all religions, not just one or two, in my opinion.

I just noticed that of 290 some folks only 4 people tried your PDF link. Did you know I have a lot of bro Skolfield's stuff on my site by page number? http://www.beholdthebeast.com/bifids_chiasms.htm#11


Peter

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Re: 7 Headed 10 Horned Beast - What's Your Interpretation?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 03:04:15 PM »
Cyphr I moved the post to a different place per PM