Author Topic: 2 Thess: "[that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first..."  (Read 2564 times)


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The purpose of this thread is to collect available information on what may well be the prophesied "falling away" or apostasy that was prophesied in second Thessalonians:

(KJV) 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,    2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.    3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first,.....

Strong's - a falling away
New Testament Greek Definition:
646 apostasia {ap-os-tas-ee'-ah}
feminine of the same as 647; TDNT - 1:513,88; n f
AV - to forsake + 575 1, falling away 1; 2
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy


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The following is from the Gatestone Institute (best to read on this link to their site)

"Muslims Converting Empty European Churches into Mosques

by Soeren Kern (at this link appear to be many more insightful articles by this, apparently Madrid based, author (though I admit I only glanced at a couple of them)

Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.

The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe.

There are now more practicing Muslims than practicing Christians in many parts of Europe, not only in large urban centers, but also in smaller towns and cities across the continent.

As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law.

The latest churches destined to become mosques are located in Germany, where the Roman Catholic Church has announced plans to close up to six churches in Duisburg, an industrial city in northwestern part of the country, due to falling church attendance.

Duisburg, which has a total population of 500,000, is home to around 100,000 mostly Turkish Muslims, making it one of the most Islamized cities in Germany.

Muslims in Duisburg are now clamoring to turn empty churches in the city into mosques, according to the Germany daily newspaper, Der Westen.

All of the churches slated for closing are located in the gritty Hamborn and Marxloh districts in northern Duisburg where Islam has already replaced Christianity as the dominant religion, and where several Catholic churches have already been abandoned in a previous round of church closings.

In Marxloh, all eyes are set on the Church of Saint Peter and Paul, which is the last remaining church in a part of Duisburg that is now almost completely Muslim. The church may be closed as early as the end of January 2012.

Marxloh also happens to be home to the Duisburg Merkez Mosque, the largest mosque in Germany. Completed in 2008 at a cost of more than 7.5 million ($10 million), the Ottoman-style mega-mosque can accommodate more than 1,200 Muslim worshippers at a time.

Merkez now wants to turn the churches in Hamborn and Marxloh into mosques and prayer centers that would serve as extensions of the mega-mosque. According to the chairman of the Merkez Mosque, Mohammed Al, "Regardless of whether it is a church or a mosque, it is a house of God."

In addition to Roman Catholic churches, some Protestant churches have also been converted into mosques in Germany, where the Muslim population has jumped from around 50,000 in the early 1980s to more than 4 million today.

In Germany as a whole, more than 400 Roman Catholic churches and more than 100 Protestant churches have been closed since 2000, according to one estimate. Another 700 Roman Catholic churches are slated to be closed over the next several years.

By contrast, there are now more than 200 mosques (including more than 40 mega-mosques), 2,600 Muslim prayer halls and a countless number unofficial mosques in Germany. Another 128 mosques are currently under construction, according to the Zentralinstitut Islam-Archiv, a Muslim organization based in Germany.

In neighboring France, mosques are being built more often than Roman Catholic churches, and there now are more practicing Muslims in the country than practicing Catholics.

Nearly 150 new mosques are currently under construction in France, home to the biggest Muslim community in Europe.

The total number of mosques in France has already doubled to more than 2,000 during just the past ten years, according to a research report, "Constructing Mosques: The Governance of Islam in France and the Netherlands." The rector of the Grand Mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, has called for the number of mosques in the country to be doubled again -- to 4,000 -- to meet growing demand.

By contrast, the Roman Catholic Church in France has built only 20 new churches during the past decade, and has formally closed more than 60 churches, many of which are destined to become mosques, according to research conducted by La Croix, a Roman Catholic daily newspaper based in Paris.

Although 64% of the French population (or 41.6 million of France's 65 million inhabitants) identifies itself as Roman Catholic, only 4.5% (or 1.9 million) of those actually are practicing Catholics, according to the French Institute of Public Opinion (or Ifop, as it is usually called).

By way of comparison, 75% (or 4.5 million) of the estimated 6 million mostly ethnic North African and sub-Saharan Muslims in France identify themselves as "believers" and 41% (or 2.5 million) say they are "practicing" Muslims, according to an in-depth research report on Islam in France published by Ifop.

Taken together, the research data provides empirical evidence that Islam is well on its way to overtaking Roman Catholicism as the dominant religion in France.

In Britain, Islam has overtaken Anglicanism as the dominant religion as more people attend mosques than the Church of England. According to one survey, 930,000 Muslims attend a place of worship at least once a week, whereas only 916,000 Anglicans do the same.

Muslim leaders are now claiming that, given such a rise of Islam in Britain, Muslims should receive a share of the privileged status of the Church of England.

Overall, at least 10,000 churches have been closed in Britain since 1960, including 8,000 Methodist churches and 1,700 Anglican churches. Another 4,000 churches are set to be closed by 2020, according to Christian Research, an organization that tracks religious trends in Britain.

By contrast, there are now more than 1,700 official mosques in Britain, many converted from former churches. In addition, there are an estimated 2,000 Muslim prayer halls and unknown thousands of unofficial mosques in garages or warehouses scattered throughout the country.

Islam is set to displace Christianity in Britain even further in the years ahead. The number of Muslims in Britain is forecast to double to 5.5 million, or 8% of the total British population, by 2030, according to the Washington, DC-based Pew Research Center.

British Prime Minister David Cameron, in a December 2011 speech in Oxford on the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, said Britain is a "Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so."

But the official Citizenship Survey published on December 21 found that the number of people who call themselves Christians in England and Wales fell by nearly 10% over the past five years.

Soeren Kern is Senior Fellow for Transatlantic Relations at the Madrid-based Grupo de Estudios Estratégicos / Strategic Studies Group. Follow him on Facebook."

At this link are many more articles by this author regarding what futurists expect to become the "revived Roman Empire".


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Best to read on the website that also includes links at this link:

The Muslim Public Affairs Council’s choice of location for its 12th Annual Convention on December 15 is telling: The All Saints Episcopal Church of Pasadena, California. The group, founded by Muslim Brotherhood followers, says this is the “next step in its mission by crossing the interfaith line.”

Yet again, the Islamists are taking advantage of naïve Christians with a desire to show off their tolerance.

The All Saints Episcopal Church of Pasadena started an Interfaith Study Group in 2007 with the Pasadena Jewish Temple and the Islamic Center of Southern California (ICSC), from which MPAC originated. The organization was founded as a branch of ICSC in 1986 and then became independent in 1988, though the two remain intertwined.

The ICSC is proud of its interfaith successes. For example, the First United Methodist Church of Santa Monica is allowing the ICSC to hold Friday prayers there every week.

The story of MPAC begins with Hassan and Maher Hathout, the former of whom died in 2009. The brothers became active with the Muslim Brotherhood at an early age, with Hassan Hathout saying that its founder, Hassan al-Banna, is “the person who most influenced my life” and that “centuries might roll over before a similar personality is produced.”

Maher Hathout was arrested in Egypt, where the Muslim Brotherhood was banned, and released in 1968. Three years later, the brothers moved to Buffalo, New York, They then went to California to establish the ICSC in 1978.

Hassan Hathout says they sought to begin the “Islamic Movement” in the U.S., a term the Brotherhood uses to describe its ideology. In 1997, he predicted its success because “America needs Islam. If you look objectively, you will see that this current civilization harbors in its body the seeds of its own destruction.”

The language is very similar to that of a 1991 U.S. Muslim Brotherhood strategy document where it defines its “work in America as a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying Western civilization from within.” Another U.S. Muslim Brotherhood document from 1989 from its Financial Committee refers to a person with the last name of Hathout as someone “in the field.”

Maher Hathout has served as a senior adviser to MPAC since its beginning at the ICSC in 1986 and is still a spokesman for the mosque. The ICSC recommends the work of Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradawi, a senior Brotherhood cleric that supports terrorism, Hamas and preaches a strategy of “gradualism” towards implementing Sharia Law. It also suggests a book on Islamic law called Fiqh-us-Sunnah authored by Brotherhood member Sayyid Saabiq under the guidance of Hassan al-Banna.

In 1998, Maher Hathout defended Hezbollah as “legitimate,” saying they are “fighting to liberate their land.” He also entertains 9/11 conspiracy theories suggesting that the U.S. government is lying about the identities of the hijackers. The current President of MPAC, Salam al-Marayati, likewise said in 1999 that Hezbollah engages in “legitimate resistance.” His immediate response to the 9/11 attacks were to point his finger at Israel.

MPAC’s former Political Director, Mahdi Bray, used to lead the Muslim American Society’s Freedom Foundation. The Muslim American Society is a Brotherhood front. Bray spoke in support of the Muslim Brotherhood in 2007 during a visit to Egypt. In March 2004, he condemned the killing of Hamas founder Ahmed Yassin as “state-sponsored terrorism.” In 2000, Bray stood on stage as Abdurrahman Alamoudi, who later was convicted on terrorism-related charges, publicly praised Hamas and Hezbollah. He joined the crowd in their displays of approval.

MPAC’s Policy and Programming Director, Edina Lekovic, was the editor of a Muslim student magazine in the 1990's called Al-Talib. In July 1999, it told Muslims to defend Osama Bin Laden when he’s called a “terrorist” because he’s a “freedom fighter.”

By that time, Al-Qaeda had already declared war on the U.S. and bombed the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998. Al-Talib management also told readers to reject the “twentieth-century version of Islam in the West,” an Islamist theme. Lekovic’s name also appears on an issue of the magazine from May 1999 alleging that the Holocaust was exaggerated.

In 2003, MPAC stood against the labeling of Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad as terrorist organizations. In March 2009, demonstrators at an MPAC-sponsored rally chanted in support of Hamas and the elimination of Israel. A policy paper from 2010 titled Building Bridges to Strengthen America treats the Muslim Brotherhood favorably, calling it a “conservative” group that can help the U.S. combat terrorism.

MPAC’s initial reaction to the recent fighting between Israel and Hamas was to accuse Israel of “assassination of Palestinian leaders, destruction of Gazan infrastructure and the gross killings of Palestinian civilians, including women and children.” The statement did not condemn Hamas. Instead, it legitimized the terrorist group by saying Israel is guilty of the “greatest act of violence” and is responsible for the ongoing conflict.

On November 24, MPAC changed its tune a bit in a joint statement with the Abrahamic Faiths Peacemaking Initiative that called on both Israel and Hamas to end their attacks. It said, “There is no excuse for the indiscriminate firing of rockets onto civilians, nor terrorism.”

MPAC explains that the holding of its convention at the All Saints Episcopal Church of Pasadena is a reflection of its focus on winning allies among other faiths. It boasts of establishing partnerships with the National Association of Evangelicals, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Catholic Archdiocese, the African Methodist Episcopal Church, the Union of Reform Judaism and other faith groups.

MPAC and similar groups like the Islamic Society of North America have created an interfaith bloc willing to defend them against Rep. Michele Bachmann and other opponents.

If MPAC’s convention is like past ones, Islamists will again be given a platform to rally Muslims to their cause, but this time, it won’t be in a mosque or a hotel conference room. It’ll be from a church pulpit.

Editor's Note: The All Saints Church and MPAC announced they will hold a press conference Thursday, Dec. 6, at 9 a.m. at the church (132 N. Euclid Avenue, Pasadena, 91101) to address recent "hateful attacks on the church for hosting a national American Muslim convention."


Ryan Mauro is's National Security Analyst and a fellow with the Clarion Fund. He is the founder of and is frequently interviewed on Fox News.


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Quote Originally Posted by PeteWaldo View Post
For the early part of the passage in the Koine Greek it only translates "that wicked" the word [ONE] is sometimes added by some translators in brackets.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

However I agree with you regarding possible reference to an individual later on, as pointed out through the translator helper words added, to this verse. I believe that "him" could be Muhammad.

I use the KJV and it doesn't have [ONE] in brackets.

I use the KJV too, but you can even see the [ONE] in biased Greek/English interlinears like Westcott and Hort.

Talk about redundant. The [ONE] isn't even neccessary since 2Thess.4 says............Who opposeth and exalteth that he as God sittith in the temple

Folks try to make a similar argument for the "beast" of Revelation 13 because it mentions "his", but Daniel assigns the masculine gender to his kingdom "beasts": Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth [were of] iron, and his nails [of] brass; [which] devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

Even though the Holy Spirit is referenced as a "he", we still recognize it as Jesus in Spirit, and not a single, carnal, physical man that stands next to each of us. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So if we require ourselves to take a carnal understanding that 2 Thessalonians can only refer to a single physical man, then we have little choice but to expect it to be Judas physically resurrected in the flesh, since the only other reference to "son of perdition" in scripture is to Judas. Now neither you nor I would suggest that, but might we both agree that it could be something more akin to Satan's spirit in a man as he was in Judas, causing him to betray Jesus?

Like those ECUSA bishops that are seated in the temple of God (the one Jesus built it in three days) voted to ordain a homosexual as bishop? Playing the role of God through their own misguided judgment, while exulting themselves above everything that is called God. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

What does the word say about overseers/bishops? 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

So we can see it would not be unreasonable to suggest that in order to qualify as an overseer/bishop, a person should be married with children, which makes perfect sense since he is to: 1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over [God's] heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

What about the guys that you cite in the Chrislam movement that are bringing antichrist Imams into their churches, not to preach Christ crucified to them, but to try to marry Islamic denial of Christ crucified, with the whole subject of the Word of God, which is Christ crucified? According to the article at the link that appears on your link: "Suggested readings will be provided from the Torah, the Gospels, and the Qur’an....."
"We will also provide suggestions on how to incorporate this program into your regular worship services....."
Readings from Satan's "messenger" THE false prophet Muhammad to be presented to the flock.

I would suggest that one of the reasons the "church" has gone so far astray is specifically because a near unanimity of the church believes either; that this passage either refers to the 1st century and it is all over and done with, or is a man that is to sit in a future rebuilt temple in some future someday after Christians have all been taken from the earth. Blinding the flock to even considering looking for "that man of sin" right here among us in the temple of God.

Even inviting unclean spirits and demons into the temple of God, without ever attempting to "try the spirits", as instructed in the Word.

Here is the link to the Crislan article:

"This weekend, the Memorial Drive Presbyterian Church in Houston along with Christian communities in Atlanta, Seattle, and Detroit will initiate a series of sermons that have been designed to produce an ecumenical reconciliation between Christianity and Islam."

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with this site so I cannot endorse what is being discussed other than the article on Crislam.